The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

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Mason
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 am

I have reached a point where, despite believing that there is much to be translated in what you said, Joe, I am too young in this dharma to actually do the work. In that sense, I have been defeated. However, it pleases me greatly when you speak in such a way, Joe. It pleases me in general when people speak as people spoke in the Pali Canon. The Zen stuff is fun but I think perhaps above my pay-grade at this time.

Metta,
Mason

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Crystal
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Crystal » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:43 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 am
It pleases me in general when people speak as people spoke in the Pali Canon.
I always find that this sutta from the Pali Canon is a helpful reminder for my practice....


[Devata:]
Those who abide in the forest,
Peaceful, living the holy life;
Those who eat but a single meal;
— why is it their face is so calm?

[The Buddha:]
They do not grieve over the past,
Nor do they yearn for the future;
They live only in the present
— That is why their face is so calm.

It's from yearning for the future,
And from grieving over the past;
This is how fools become withered
— Like a fresh reed that's been hacked down



https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html


_/|\_

.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:56 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 am
I have reached a point where, despite believing that there is much to be translated in what you said, Joe, I am too young in this dharma to actually do the work. In that sense, I have been defeated. However, it pleases me greatly when you speak in such a way, Joe. It pleases me in general when people speak as people spoke in the Pali Canon. The Zen stuff is fun but I think perhaps above my pay-grade at this time.

Metta,
Mason
Mason, a wonderful report. Thank you very much.

The thing about the "Zen stuff" that you mention is that, historically, and modernly, when it is authentic, it comes or has come from genuine realization within the practitioners who behave or speak in certain ways. But I'd say that what is best with regard to this -- speaking as a practitioner -- is to put that "stuff" aside, and just to practice as one has been formally taught, with teacher and sangha, and at home.

The "fun" of the "Zen stuff" can be or become authentically one's own, and shared with, well, all beings. It's a birthright, and only natural. But it comes up and comes out only as a result of effective and correct practice. This is as I see it.

But, I'll also make bold to say, who cares about "pay-grade"?:

...If it's within one's PLAY-grade, then have at it; but don't forget genuine and correct practice! Else, it rings hollow and, yes... I'd say, goofy and dumb.

There's no faking Realization. And Realization never ends. The current state of our practice proves this! So, practice never ends either.

Be careful about intensity of practice, and I suppose that medical-providers should be given due attention if they advise us to slack off for a while, if health matters are an issue at any time.

Strong health, strong practice,

:hatsoff: :namaste:

best,

--Joe

ps We're just talking. Friendly greetings, -J.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:12 pm

Mason wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:58 pm
fuki wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:47 pm
If it's not the forum my camera may be defect! :lol:
Mutual dependence of awareness and contents of awareness.
Awareness is not relative to content, so disregard the picture and see the "light"
:109:
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https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:16 pm

Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 am
I have reached a point where, despite believing that there is much to be translated in what you said, Joe, I am too young in this dharma to actually do the work. In that sense, I have been defeated. However, it pleases me greatly when you speak in such a way, Joe. It pleases me in general when people speak as people spoke in the Pali Canon. The Zen stuff is fun but I think perhaps above my pay-grade at this time.

Metta,
Mason
Joe's speech "pleases" me too, nevertheless it's not categorized for me as this or that, just naturally Joe/Human. Though he still sometimes tries to beat the "hindu" out of me. :116:

:cat:

I also miss the other J's activity here though, he added beauty to the garden.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Enver M.
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Enver M. » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:10 pm

Crystal wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:43 pm
Mason wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 am
It pleases me in general when people speak as people spoke in the Pali Canon.
I always find that this sutta from the Pali Canon is a helpful reminder for my practice....


[Devata:]
Those who abide in the forest,
Peaceful, living the holy life;
Those who eat but a single meal;
— why is it their face is so calm?

[The Buddha:]
They do not grieve over the past,
Nor do they yearn for the future;
They live only in the present
— That is why their face is so calm.

It's from yearning for the future,
And from grieving over the past;
This is how fools become withered
— Like a fresh reed that's been hacked down



https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html


_/|\_

.

For me, you deserve respect Crystal.

_/|\_
jump to the water (how will you learn to swim)

This is Dogen's dropping off body and mind

In my words, Both Bull & Self Transcended

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:41 pm

Marcel-Bodhisattva,
fuki wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:16 pm
I also miss the other J's activity here though, he added beauty to the garden.
Was thinking of him moments ago too, while making tea in the kitchen. I resolved to send him an email to wish well to him and his family in Japan; will do so! Maybe I'll bring back a word from him to share it here if he permits.

(he can read our doings, here, but I suppose cannot post).

Doing laundry this morning! Ready to put it out into the solar drier (clothes-line). Sunny day in the desert (who'd have thought... )! ;)

--Joe

sol_clip.GIF
sol_clip.GIF (7.83 KiB) Viewed 386 times

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:46 pm

Eggs-o-teric.

brown-eggs_wicker-bowl.jpg
brown-eggs_wicker-bowl.jpg (17.08 KiB) Viewed 383 times

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Mason
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Mason » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:42 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:12 pm
Mason wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:58 pm
fuki wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:47 pm
If it's not the forum my camera may be defect! :lol:
Mutual dependence of awareness and contents of awareness.
Awareness is not relative to content, so disregard the picture and see the "light"
:109:
When awareness is not relative to content, content is not relevant to awareness. The "light" is available as a quality of content itself - so you're cats and bunnies and fishes and whatnot are themselves the Clear Light.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:22 am

That turned out to be creative, thanks Mason!

Image
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Mason
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Mason » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:34 am

Nice pic, Fuki.

I'm starting to wake up from speaking like a computer. Thanks much to Crystal. Feels good to know that one can just be ordinary on the path, as long as you don't overthink it!

Perhaps the thread should be re-titled: The Middling Exoteric Human Befriender.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:08 am

Thanks Mason, what's good for the Brain Machine is daily walks in nature (wifi-free walks)
forests especially since they lower blood pressure (I forget the scientific thingy they do which effects our blood pressure)

thoughts are momentary and arise due to conditions, if you ever find a thinker let me know and I'll try this over or underthinking some day!
:lol:

Yes be ordinary, or "be" whatever occurs, yet depending on who you ask, my ordinary might be your weird and vice versa :D

ps thanks for all the cool threads.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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The Middling Exoteric Human Befriender.

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:02 pm

Mason wrote:Perhaps the thread should be re-titled: The Middling Exoteric Human Befriender.
Done!

:namaste:

--Joe

ps (but it remains as such only in one's own post, I think, after simply editing the subject-line; this could lead to morass here, though, if we overdo it in any thread. But doing so does not cause threads actually to fragment, it's just that the headline is inconsistent in a thread; not so bad) ;)

pps (ha-ha, and some people evidently don't pay much attention to the subject-line anyway, sometimes, given the amount of off-topic posting in evidence in general here) :)

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:22 pm

'morning, Marcel,
fuki wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:16 pm
Joe's speech "pleases" me too, nevertheless it's not categorized for me as this or that, just naturally Joe/Human. Though he still sometimes tries to beat the "hindu" out of me.
Funny man! And thanks.
fuki wrote:Though he still sometimes tries to beat the "hindu" out of me.
Well, it's just the "Hindu-ization" of a Zen Buddhist discussion site that I try to expunge. It's no disrespect to functional Hinduism, nor to Hindus.

But as Zen Buddhism and Buddhism in general has emerged as a powerful revolutionary reaction to the limited (and Shakyamuni Buddha would say "errant" and ultimately unsatisfying) view and compass of Hindu practice, dogma, and belief, then Buddhism has already been through this and has sloughed it off, and the butterfly should not have to go back into the chrysalis. Freedom, and the ways-to-freedom, should not be re-polluted!

:D

--Joe

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Crystal
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Crystal » Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:17 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:34 am


I'm starting to wake up from speaking like a computer. Thanks much to Crystal. Feels good to know that one can just be ordinary on the path, as long as you don't overthink it!

Perhaps the thread should be re-titled: The Middling Exoteric Human Befriender.

Ah yes, one can babble all kinds of fanciful woo from a lofty perspective - but at the end of the day the toilet still has to be cleaned and the re-cycling bins put out on the pavement for collection!

Image

.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:13 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:22 pm
Well, it's just the "Hindu-ization" of a Zen Buddhist discussion site that I try to expunge. It's no disrespect to functional Hinduism, nor to Hindus.

But as Zen Buddhism and Buddhism in general has emerged as a powerful revolutionary reaction to the limited (and Shakyamuni Buddha would say "errant" and ultimately unsatisfying) view and compass of Hindu practice, dogma, and belief, then Buddhism has already been through this and has sloughed it off, and the butterfly should not have to go back into the chrysalis. Freedom, and the ways-to-freedom, should not be re-polluted!

:D

--Joe
I understand Joe, luckily I'm not a "Buddhist" nor do "Buddhist" take me seriously in the field of "Buddhism" so it's just me being my gay self.
while vacuming moms house today she asked if I knew a chistmas song, so I sang "ohm namo buddhaya" for her :lol:

The cats prefer ohm namo shivaya ;)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:11 pm

Dear Marcel,
"Gay" doesn't get you off the hook, brother. No excuses!! :lol: :100:

:bow2:

--Joe (sawdust-maker)

ps Coincidence; "Om namah Shivaya" was an early mantra I used while I was another kind of practitioner in my youth, after a friend -- a disciple of the guru Swami Muktananda -- taught it to me. I was already a practiced and practicing Hatha Yogi, but did not yet have a very well structured nor focused meditation practice (no teacher, in other words). So, my friend was, for a while, my teacher. He was a scientist, and was from India, and I trusted him. I never met his guru, but the mantra helped me sit longer and more regularly, after rounds of hatha yoga practice a couple of times per day (thanks, Dilip!). I was also keen for a while on the practices of Sri Ramana Maharshi, which were even more pared-down to the bone. Soon after these brief affiliations, I found my Ch'an teacher. But I owe a lot to the short epoch with the Hindu teachings and practices, just as, in his way(s), Shakyamuni owed a lot to them, but felt unsatisfied, and went on to discover something quite else, quite effective, and ultimately satisfying, ...if the Buddhist record is being straight with us, and even if it is not. Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist practice proves its own medicinal effectiveness. Thanking my lucky ...stars, for self and all beings. ;) Cheers!, take good care, -J.
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:23 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:11 pm
Dear Marcel,
"Gay" doesn't get you off the hook, brother. No excuses!! :lol: :100:

:bow2:

--Joe (sawdust-maker)
Good one!

You're a Funny!
Now I'm interested in your walking pattern, any ground hard wood, soft wood, soil.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Kaya
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Kaya » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:48 pm

fuki wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:13 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:22 pm
Well, it's just the "Hindu-ization" of a Zen Buddhist discussion site that I try to expunge. It's no disrespect to functional Hinduism, nor to Hindus.

But as Zen Buddhism and Buddhism in general has emerged as a powerful revolutionary reaction to the limited (and Shakyamuni Buddha would say "errant" and ultimately unsatisfying) view and compass of Hindu practice, dogma, and belief, then Buddhism has already been through this and has sloughed it off, and the butterfly should not have to go back into the chrysalis. Freedom, and the ways-to-freedom, should not be re-polluted!

:D

--Joe
I understand Joe, luckily I'm not a "Buddhist" nor do "Buddhist" take me seriously in the field of "Buddhism" so it's just me being my gay self.
while vacuming moms house today she asked if I knew a chistmas song, so I sang "ohm namo buddhaya" for her :lol:

The cats prefer ohm namo shivaya ;)
desert_woodworker wrote: p.s. Uchiyama Roshi reminds us in his OPENING THE HAND OF THOUGHT -- APPROACH TO ZEN (1993), that the Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist Ancestor Nagarjuna taught (p. 71-2):
"Zazen is the dharma of all the buddhas. Non-Buddhists also practice zazen. However, they make the mistake of colouring it; their incorrect views are like thorns. Therefore, it cannot be the same as the zazen of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Sravakas and pratyeka buddhas also do zazen, but they wish only to control their minds and seek to reach Nirvana. This is not the same as the zazen of the buddhas and bodhisattvas".

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:11 pm

ps Coincidence; "Om namah Shivaya" was an early mantra I used while I was another kind of practitioner in my youth, after a friend -- a disciple of the guru Swami Muktananda -- taught it to me. I was already a practiced and practicing Hatha Yogi, but did not yet have a very well structured nor focused meditation practice (no teacher, in other words). So, my friend was, for a while, my teacher. He was a scientist, and was from India, and I trusted him. I never met his guru, but the mantra helped me sit longer and more regularly, after rounds of hatha yoga practice a couple of times per day (thanks, Dilip!). I was also keen for a while on the practices of Sri Ramana Maharshi, which were even more pared-down to the bone. Soon after these brief affiliations, I found my Ch'an teacher. But I owe a lot to the short epoch with the Hindu teachings and practices, just as, in his way(s), Shakyamuni owed a lot to them, but felt unsatisfied, and went on to discover something quite else, quite effective, and ultimately satisfying, ...if the Buddhist record is being straight with us, and even if it is not. Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist practice proves its own medicinal effectiveness. Thanking my lucky ...stars, for self and all beings. ;) Cheers!, take good care, -J.
Thanks for the edit Joe.

Ohm nama shivaya or "undifferentiated consciousness" fits well in 'Buddhism" or Buddhist practise too despite the word shivaya, but it's not about the word, I chant this often for people I personally know when I'm "thinking" of them or "touching" them, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. For me everything is about function, co-creating prosperous conditions for all beings, I couldn't care if it's labeled as "hindu" or whatever, though I'm aware there are distinctions in religions/practises and it's never my intention to "mix" or confuse anyone. As for Shakya being "unsatisfied" no sorry I don't buy that, all religions have such tales to set up one religion against the other (or to win "souls"), I'm sure today the historical buddha would frown at some practises/ideas/conduct in Buddhism too and be 'unsatisfied' with them. But yes I agree that "history" doesn't matter at all.
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