The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

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desert_woodworker
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:31 pm

Marcel,
fuki wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 pm
As for Shakya being "unsatisfied" no sorry I don't buy that, all religions have such tales to set up one religion against the other (or to win "souls"), I'm sure today the historical buddha would frown at some practises/ideas/conduct in Buddhism too and be 'unsatisfied' with them. But yes I agree that "history" doesn't matter at all.
Now, now; if Old Golden-Face had been satisfied with being the best Hindu-practice student that his five Hindu teachers had ever had, we might never have heard of him, and "Buddhism" -- such as it is -- might never have developed (almost certainly not... ). So, I tip what's left of my ragged old hat to ...The Man Who Woke Up. He showed a Way to be walked. Hail!

--Joe
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Hindu "fasting" and bodily asceticism was evidently not the most enlightening thing for this old practitioner.

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:10 pm

No doubt I rejoice deeply we are able to encounter/practise the buddhadharma and hats off to Shakya :hatsoff:

Just don't care about the human tale of so called "history" about religions, I'm a practisioner. :cat:
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:08 am

Fuki et al.,
fuki wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 pm
I'm sure today the historical buddha would frown at some practises/ideas/conduct in Buddhism too and be 'unsatisfied' with them. But yes I agree that "history" doesn't matter at all.
Even if so, "frowning" would be OK by the old man as I see it, provided that we could document to Old Golden Face that practices, say, in Ch'an and Zen Buddhist practice, do in fact bring people to awakening, as we know they do, if we faithfully and energetically persist in such sanghas and practice with teacher and sangha, there/here.

"I'm sure" -- maybe more than you are, above! -- that the Old Man would be Jake with what we do, and what has compassionately been developed in the past 25 centuries. And he'd would want to join us... .

See your local Ch'an-, Zen-, Seon-, or Thien- Buddhist sangha to see what this is about. Don't assume you "know"! (not you, Fuki, but the generic "you". And, you too, Fuki; and, me). ;) See you there!

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:20 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:10 pm
Just don't care about the human tale of so called "history" about religions, I'm a practisioner.
Not caring is ONE thing. Caring is another.

--Joe

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:01 am

Don't know what the subject-line of this thread means, at all. --Joe
Ignorance is to be ignorant of one's original mind. - Ma Tsu

Liberation is awakening to one's original nature. - Ma Tsu

A guest never knows how much to laugh at a family joke. -Henny Youngman

Bodhi-Mind is working for the good of others. -Hakuin

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:44 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:01 am
Don't know what the subject-line of this thread means, at all. --Joe
Something to do with Cryptic Masonry I guess. :D
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:48 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:08 am
Fuki et al.,
fuki wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 pm
I'm sure today the historical buddha would frown at some practises/ideas/conduct in Buddhism too and be 'unsatisfied' with them. But yes I agree that "history" doesn't matter at all.
Even if so, "frowning" would be OK by the old man as I see it, provided that we could document to Old Golden Face that practices, say, in Ch'an and Zen Buddhist practice, do in fact bring people to awakening, as we know they do, if we faithfully and energetically persist in such sanghas and practice with teacher and sangha, there/here.

"I'm sure" -- maybe more than you are, above! -- that the Old Man would be Jake with what we do, and what has compassionately been developed in the past 25 centuries. And he'd would want to join us... .

See your local Ch'an-, Zen-, Seon-, or Thien- Buddhist sangha to see what this is about. Don't assume you "know"! (not you, Fuki, but the generic "you". And, you too, Fuki; and, me). ;) See you there!

--Joe
Joe, it's all good, I'm just not a loaf of bread. :hatsoff:
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:05 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:20 am
Not caring is ONE thing. Caring is another.
Quite so, Joe.
dl.jpg
dl.jpg (88.72 KiB) Viewed 679 times
In the same way I don't care for things I don't need, although they may be of temporarely service to others.
In my case, whatever the mind wants to add, I don't need, "history" or any "story in time" surely being one of them.
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Larry
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Larry » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:13 am

"There is no need for....complicated philosophy, doctrine or dogma"

There goes the forum :lol:

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fuki
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:25 pm

Larry wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:13 am
"There is no need for....complicated philosophy, doctrine or dogma"

There goes the forum :lol:
:lol:

Ah no exoteric brain machines are like an itching rash, as long as there is consciousness the virus will return. Just spend time on forums in samadhi and then any :cat: larry or plopping frog in an old pond can be a medium for realization, hmmm perhaps we need random frog sounds on zenspace, I'm sure Fruity can code that in :lol:
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm

Larry wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:13 am
"There is no need for....complicated philosophy, doctrine or dogma"

There goes the forum :lol:
Ha,ha. Good to see you, Old Man.

When one has entered the Way in truth, there's no need for moving-mind considerations of the Way. It's fun stuff, but no need for that, and it's not even attractive.

But as awakening is not permanent, and as skillful-means can be valuable to develop, ...Ladies and Gentlemen, here we have... the forum.

--Joe

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Hola, Marcel, Amigo,
fuki wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:05 pm
In the same way I don't care for things I don't need, although they may be of temporarely service to others. In my case, whatever the mind wants to add, I don't need, "history" or any "story in time" surely being one of them.
As you say, Old Man.

I truly trust that you don't need those things.

Imagine if you were conversant with them, though; could you develop skillful means with them, or from them? To help "others"? Just a rhetorical question; no reply needed nor requested.

See?, there's another dimension that can be cavorted-in, in the formal sense. Just a note... .

No "need". Granted! No need, what so Trevor.

Best wishes in this new odd-number year, ;)

:namaste:

--Joe

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:35 pm

Herr Prof. Doktor Marcel,
fuki wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:05 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:20 am
Not caring is ONE thing. Caring is another.
Quite so, Joe. dalai_lamal.jpg
His H. the D. L. is Jake with me.

His way may not be of the Ch'an and Zen way, but he's only Human! Me too.

--Joe (Tennen)

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:48 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:00 pm
Imagine if you were conversant with them, though; could you develop skillful means with them, or from them? To help "others"?
Yes, it's called daily life.
Using illusion to remedy illusion (skillfull means) is a beautiful thing when it arises spontaneously in accordance with conditions, hence my favourite and most powerful element in the universe is the element of surprise. :109:
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Kaya

Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Kaya » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:04 pm

The most important concept in skill in means is the use, guided by wisdom and compassion, of a specific teaching (means) geared to the particular audience taught. Edward Conze, in A Short History Of Buddhism, says "'Skill in means' is the ability to bring out the spiritual potentialities of different people by statements or actions which are adjusted to their needs and adapted to their capacity for comprehension."
-Wikipedia

In koan study, can be a powerful aid when utilized by a skilled, experienced teacher.

Not familiar with any other proper definition or context for this technique outside of student/teacher relationship . . .

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:17 pm

Kaya wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:04 pm
Not familiar with any other proper definition or context for this technique outside of student/teacher relationship . . .
It "specifies" spontaneously according to causes and conditions in daily life, let's say "you" and a "neighbour" it requires no "buddhist" words or any premeditated "technique" or "target audience" that is in daily life.
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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Kaya » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:37 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:17 pm
Kaya wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:04 pm
Not familiar with any other proper definition or context for this technique outside of student/teacher relationship . . .
It "specifies" spontaneously according to causes and conditions in daily life, let's say "you" and a "neighbour" it requires no "buddhist" words or any premeditated "technique" or "target audience" that is in daily life.
Make of it what you will, but this is a Buddhist forum. You are not a Buddhist. Consider not disrespecting or overriding the forum context of this specific term, at least.

The experience of a wise and experienced Buddhist teacher employing skillful means for the benefit of a sincere student is one I would wish for you.

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:15 am

Heya Kaya,

as always I wasn't speaking in opposition to what you quoted nor to Buddhism, hence I only commented on the last part as how it occurs when encountering neigbours or "strangers" who are 99% of the time not Buddhists, when talking to Buddhists I would mostly use Buddhists terms/expedients, if one can only "expound" to Buddhist in Buddhist terms, then one's so called wisdom/compassion is pretty shallow and of limited service.
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Kaya

Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by Kaya » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:32 am

fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:15 am
Heya Kaya,
as always I wasn't speaking in opposition to what you quoted nor to Buddhism,
Makes sense, as you are not a Buddhist.
fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:15 am
hence I only commented on the last part as how it occurs when encountering neigbours or "strangers" who are 99% of the time not Buddhists, when talking to Buddhists I would mostly use Buddhists terms/expedients
That would be relevant here.
fuki wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:15 am
if one can only "expound" to Buddhist in Buddhist terms, then one's so called wisdom/compassion is pretty shallow and of limited service, or let's say covered in brain sperm, aquired knowledge for the child-consciousness.
Expounding as a Buddhist on a Zen Buddhist forum would be true to the benevolent intent of the forum. What comes from the heart of such a one who does so, and there are many here who do, can hardly be described as "shallow" or "limited".

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Re: The Great Exoteric Brain Machine

Post by fuki » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:27 pm

Kaya wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:32 am
Expounding as a Buddhist on a Zen Buddhist forum would be true to the benevolent intent of the forum. What comes from the heart of such a one who does so, and there are many here who do, can hardly be described as "shallow" or "limited".
Ofourse Kaya, sorry if you find any of my words offensive or rude, I was just not excluding "non-buddhist" daily life from Zen(Buddhism) sorry if things got lost in translation/interpretation, it's all good. (over "here") larry
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