Fruit Flies

Anything at all goes here. Keep it clean.
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[james]
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Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:14 am

I left some grapes and the countertop compost container improperly covered and now have a healthy community of fruit flies. I know that they have very short lives and a rapid rate of reproduction and that this group is probably a multigenerational family ... “children”, “parents”, “grand-parents” at the least. I know too that if I was meticulously, assiduously tidy (as I sometimes am) the flies would quickly disappear due to their natural rate of mortality.

But, foolishly perhaps, I am feeling a sense of responsibility if not attachment for them all. Due, in part, to my inattentiveness an opportunity arose for this living community to come into being. In the past I have unhesitatingly turned off the food tap and they were soon gone. Today I am not quite so inclined.

Any comments about one should approach this and similar situations are welcome.

Spike
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Spike » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 am

[james] wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:14 am
I left some grapes and the countertop compost container improperly covered and now have a healthy community of fruit flies. I know that they have very short lives and a rapid rate of reproduction and that this group is probably a multigenerational family ... “children”, “parents”, “grand-parents” at the least. I know too that if I was meticulously, assiduously tidy (as I sometimes am) the flies would quickly disappear due to their natural rate of mortality.

But, foolishly perhaps, I am feeling a sense of responsibility if not attachment for them all. Due, in part, to my inattentiveness an opportunity arose for this living community to come into being. In the past I have unhesitatingly turned off the food tap and they were soon gone. Today I am not quite so inclined.

Any comments about one should approach this and similar situations are welcome.

https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/how- ... it-flies#1

"Why Fruit Flies Are a Health Risk

Research shows that fruit flies can transfer germs from a dirty surface onto a clean one. Some of the bacteria they may carry include salmonella, E. coli, and listeria. These three germs each cause food poisoning. Severe cases may put you in the hospital and can even be life-threatening."
Meido Moore's monastery and contact info:
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Genjo Marinello's temple and contact info:
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[james]
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:10 am

Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 am
https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/how- ... it-flies#1

"Why Fruit Flies Are a Health Risk

Research shows that fruit flies can transfer germs from a dirty surface onto a clean one. Some of the bacteria they may carry include salmonella, E. coli, and listeria. These three germs each cause food poisoning. Severe cases may put you in the hospital and can even be life-threatening."
Not that common sense can’t be Buddhist, but I’m wondering if and how one, who professes to the form and meaning of buddhadharma, may get rid of fruit flies. When I once had malaria, I was not hesitant in accepting the the parasiticide that got rid of that problem. Yet earlier, as a young teenager, I found it more and more difficult to enjoy the experience of fishing for brook trout. And now later I still puzzle at the moral implications in my own life of any act that I might initiate (and associated words and thoughts) that touches on the arising and ending of life. We are without cease involved in the processes of life and death. For example, in the life/being experience, all beings including the non sentient are drawn into interaction and relationships. If I express the part that I play in a manner that is not value neutral, as I am inclined to, am I manifesting a clear or distorted appreciation of the dharma?
:wool:

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Spike » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:58 am

[james] wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:10 am
Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 am
https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/how- ... it-flies#1

"Why Fruit Flies Are a Health Risk

Research shows that fruit flies can transfer germs from a dirty surface onto a clean one. Some of the bacteria they may carry include salmonella, E. coli, and listeria. These three germs each cause food poisoning. Severe cases may put you in the hospital and can even be life-threatening."
Not that common sense can’t be Buddhist, but I’m wondering if and how one, who professes to the form and meaning of buddhadharma, may get rid of fruit flies.
:wool:
F***ing kill 'em.
Meido Moore's monastery and contact info:
www.korinji.org

Genjo Marinello's temple and contact info:
https://choboji.org/

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:40 pm

[james] wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:10 am

Not that common sense can’t be Buddhist, but I’m wondering if and how one, who professes to the form and meaning of buddhadharma, may get rid of fruit flies. When I once had malaria, I was not hesitant in accepting the the parasiticide that got rid of that problem. Yet earlier, as a young teenager, I found it more and more difficult to enjoy the experience of fishing for brook trout. And now later I still puzzle at the moral implications in my own life of any act that I might initiate (and associated words and thoughts) that touches on the arising and ending of life. We are without cease involved in the processes of life and death. For example, in the life/being experience, all beings including the non sentient are drawn into interaction and relationships. If I express the part that I play in a manner that is not value neutral, as I am inclined to, am I manifesting a clear or distorted appreciation of the dharma?
:wool:
I love all kinds of flies, I've learned a lot from observing them, yes like all sentient beings they are capable of feeling pain and pleasure and love. Haven't seen fruit flies in over 10 years but I remember them when working in a large vegetable garden they had their own corner just like you describe, I think they're good company and like all insects have an important function on earth, both as cleaners and food for other insects. I could never harm them and I haven't killed an insect in +- 30 years, enjoy your community. I wouldn't know about when you should cut off their food supply or not, that's totally something only you can determine. You don't live in a city with neighbours right? So as long as they're happily doing their thing outside let them do their thingy. The more fruit flies the more you might help other insects in your area which are struggeling, I don't know the situation there.
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:52 pm

Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:58 am


F***ing kill 'em.
You'd have to go through me first :twisted: (well in my home that is)
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:26 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:52 pm
Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:58 am


F***ing kill 'em.
You'd have to go through me first :twisted: (well in my home that is)
How would you prevent him?

As for here, the flies are mostly gone from the house. I caught most of them in the countertop trimmings container which I left open for a while and on which I placed a soft covering and carried the whole to the outdoor compost, there released to join the cloud of apparently satisfied resident fruit flies.

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by fuki » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:32 pm

[james] wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:26 pm


How would you prevent him?
Everyone who comes to my house understands killing is not supported by me, so no one would ever dare to harm a fly here, literally and figuratively.
As for here, the flies are mostly gone from the house. I caught most of them in the countertop trimmings container which I left open for a while and on which I placed a soft covering and carried the whole to the outdoor compost, there released to join the cloud of apparently satisfied resident fruit flies.
That's great, one day you (we) will remember that kindness, although I suspect it's just natural to you and there's no idea of kindness involved, still it's appreciated and will not go unnoticed.

ps everyone that knows me is better then everyone that (might) come here, a burglar in the night who wouldn't know me might find out I'm a capable and efficient killer.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Spike » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:41 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:32 pm
Everyone who comes to my house understands killing is not supported by me, so no one would ever dare to harm a fly here, literally and figuratively.
fuki wrote: ps everyone that knows me is better then everyone that (might) come here, a burglar in the night who wouldn't know me might find out I'm a capable and efficient killer.
I understand this perfectly since I am left-handed and therefore right-brain dominant.

P.S. I just gave away all my guns: Beretta 9 mm 92FS SA with two pre-ban 30 cartridge magazines, Beretta O&U 686 shotgun (for skeet), S&W .357 Distinguished Combat Commander revolver with custom Hogue grips and speedloader kept unloaded under-the-bed for house protection, etc., to my daughter's fiancé. But a "burglar in the night" might still feel the wrath of my shillelagh, or the several hatpins stuck in my mattress.
Meido Moore's monastery and contact info:
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Genjo Marinello's temple and contact info:
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by fuki » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:04 am

Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:41 pm

wrath of my shillelagh
:lol:
That's a lot of fire power, any experience dealing with energy vampires?

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Seeker242 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am

[james] wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:26 pm
I caught most of them in the countertop trimmings container which I left open for a while and on which I placed a soft covering and carried the whole to the outdoor compost, there released to join the cloud of apparently satisfied resident fruit flies.
This is the best way. Killing them is the opposite of how to practice Buddhism. :)

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:19 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am

Killing them is the opposite of how to practice Buddhism. :)
Yes, I agree.
Spike, who is also practicing Buddhism, might not agree.
Is there a line in the sand somewhere ... practicing this side, not practicing that side?

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Seeker242 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:34 pm

[james] wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:19 pm
Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am

Killing them is the opposite of how to practice Buddhism. :)
Yes, I agree.
Spike, who is also practicing Buddhism, might not agree.
Is there a line in the sand somewhere ... practicing this side, not practicing that side?
There is a line, the 5 precepts. Killing breaks the 1st precept, which is the opposite of practicing it. The 5 precepts is one of the fundamental practices of Buddhism, of all Buddhist traditions.

"The Buddha seed grows in accordance with not taking life. Transmit the life of Buddha’s wisdom and do not kill." ~Dogen

All zen practitioners, who are practicing correctly, aim to practice keeping the precepts, not doing the opposite.

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Spike » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:33 pm

I quoted from WebMD that fruit flies are a health risk to oneself and Others. Risk assessments and trade-offs may be personal and problematic. I think that's enough from me on the subject.
Meido Moore's monastery and contact info:
www.korinji.org

Genjo Marinello's temple and contact info:
https://choboji.org/

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Spike » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:02 pm

Meido Moore's monastery and contact info:
www.korinji.org

Genjo Marinello's temple and contact info:
https://choboji.org/

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[james]
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:03 pm

Spike wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 am
https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/how- ... it-flies#1

"Why Fruit Flies Are a Health Risk

Research shows that fruit flies can transfer germs from a dirty surface onto a clean one. Some of the bacteria they may carry include salmonella, E. coli, and listeria. These three germs each cause food poisoning. Severe cases may put you in the hospital and can even be life-threatening."
This is akin to shooting the messenger. If surfaces are clean and not dirty then there is little opportunity for the fruit flies to spread any health threatening bacteria. Of course surfaces are never “clean” much less sterile, fruit flies have been with us forever and here we all are, not suffering too much from food poisoning and we will all eventually end up in a life-threatening situation, regardless.
So, if I understand the Dalai Lama (as reported by the LA Times), there is no line in the sand.

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by fuki » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am


This is the best way. Killing them is the opposite of how to practice Buddhism. :)
I still have no success telling my cats not to kill moths/night-butterflies, they know birds are not food but they go beserk when a moth enters the house, I can catch 90% of them but sometimes they're just to quick. It's not the killing which is the issue (afterall all without killing there would be no life on earth) but the fact they are pets so every insect then becomes my responsibility, I mean I wouldn't tell a wild feline not to kill. When it comes to humans, killing mostly hurts the killer not the killed, as his/her motive is what is the issue, not so much the act of killing.

I mean I had to put pets to sleep (with a vets assistance) when old and suffering from disease, I would do the same for a human if they requested to end their suffering aka euthanasia, and I also would have no problem killing myself if the situation became unbearable, it all depends.
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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Mason » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:06 pm

"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching. Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves."

- Kakacupama Sutta
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by Seeker242 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:35 am

fuki wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm
Seeker242 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am
This is the best way. Killing them is the opposite of how to practice Buddhism. :)
I still have no success telling my cats not to kill moths/night-butterflies, they know birds are not food but they go beserk when a moth enters the house, I can catch 90% of them but sometimes they're just to quick.
One of the drawbacks of being born in the animal realm, the inability to practice the dharma. Humans on the other hand, we do have this opportunity and it should not be wasted.
When it comes to humans, killing mostly hurts the killer not the killed, as his/her motive is what is the issue, not so much the act of killing.
Great reason to keep the precepts pure.

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Re: Fruit Flies

Post by [james] » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:45 am

Seeker242 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:35 am
fuki wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm
I still have no success telling my cats not to kill moths/night-butterflies, they know birds are not food but they go beserk when a moth enters the house, I can catch 90% of them but sometimes they're just to quick.
One of the drawbacks of being born in the animal realm, the inability to practice the dharma.
I think all beings have the ability to practice the dharma hence the injunction against killing beings.

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