meaning or nonsense?

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Enver M.
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meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm

Everything is zen because our leader is a zen master.

But there happen to come a question in my mind.
Should we look for a meaning in our life in all aspects that which is unlimited with your skill or the truth is just nonsense?

I think being full independent and having attachment to environment is two different ways.
the first one evoke the thought of nirvana at me.
while the second one is more likely the way of the crow or a meaningful life.

I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

that is the zen that which is outside of word and letters and requires full independency.

What do you think?
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:25 pm

Enlightenment = to (be able to) know what is what
Mahakasyapa = Love
Buddha = unconditional Love
what zen requires = Full independency

If we put the words in its place we know what we are talking about.
no need for mathematic !!!
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desert_woodworker
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Enver, maybe it's impossible in your country to visit a Zen Buddhist teacher and Zen Buddhist sangha?, I don't know.

But, this (that) would be a good start in helping to answer your questions.

Even "posture" is best treated in-person, in 3-dimensions, versus in 2-dimensions like these flat words on a page.

There's a lot in this beautiful tradition which can only be conveyed "in-person", face-to-face (in fact, MOST of it. Especially the important part(s) ).

A lot that we could say here would be useless, and could cause confusion, and suffering.

...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)

New Year's wishes!,

--Joe

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 pm

desert_woodworker wrote: ...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)
I can come face to face in which every platform you wish, joe.as i've following white method protection. :D

Best,
no need for mathematic !!!
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desert_woodworker
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by desert_woodworker » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 pm

Hiya,
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 pm
desert_woodworker wrote: ...Except perhaps unless we hang out in the "Lounge" section. ;)
I can come face to face in which every platform you wish, joe.as i've following white method protection. :D

Best,

"You're a good man, Charlie Brown".

--Joe


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fuki
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 am

Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

What do you think?
I wouldn't grant it any attention, both meaning and nonsense 'extuinguished'

:115:

As Joe said, I can play in the lounge perhaps, but I'm handicapped without Larry :D
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:25 am

fuki wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 am
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.

What do you think?
I wouldn't grant it any attention, both meaning and nonsense 'extuinguished'

:115:
I'll answer with your post in another thread:
..." All we can say is that it is close by. It cannot be directly described, but when you have a tacit understanding of its substance, it is there.~Zen teachings of Huang Po"
As Joe said, I can play in the lounge perhaps, but I'm handicapped without Larry :D
:namaste:
no need for mathematic !!!
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fuki
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:02 pm

No nonsense there mate,

Got the quotes from this book btw,
Image
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm

fuki wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:02 pm
No nonsense there mate,
If there is no problem for you then there is no problem for me.
no need for mathematic !!!
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fuki
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm
If there is no problem for you then there is no problem for me.
All so called problems I see as opportunities, so it's all good whether problems are imagined/conceived of or not. :hatsoff:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:44 pm

Enver,
Enver M. wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:58 pm
I think again that in Mahakasyapa's zen all is about nonsense.
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile? This Mind is wonderful.

As nonsense goes, "This" is really, really, good. This is the best.

--Joe

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile?
Exactly.You come very close to the door to what I've mean.I imagine the Mahakasyapa's smile that which is outside of words and letters.that smile makes a 'nonsense' smile sense on me.

how can i explain? if you try to portrait that smile it will happen to be a nonsense smile.it's not hard.
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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desert_woodworker
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 pm

Mind you, I'm not saying that this is it. --Joe ;)


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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Well, there's good nonsense and bad nonsense.

Good nonsense is The Wordless-Doctrine, otherwise known as Ch'an or Zen Buddhism. It's nonsense because the sense is not conveyed in words, but usually by actions, and through mutual and intimate understanding. Buddha held up the flower to serve as his Teisho, his Dharma-talk. Mahakasyapa evidently understood (i.e., shared) the Buddha's "state-of-mind" (which is all that the Buddha meant to convey, as, what's to say about it?), and Mahakasyapa smiled. Why not smile?
Exactly.You come very close to the door to what I've mean.I imagine the Mahakasyapa's smile that which is outside of words and letters.that smile makes a 'nonsense' smile sense on me.

how can i explain? if you try to portrait that smile it will happen to be a nonsense smile.it's not hard.
of course, i'm not talking about the meaning behind it.

just the portrait.
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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desert_woodworker
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm

By the way, from a Chinese source comes this image. --Joe

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 am

Devi asks
Shiva answer:
My sweet heart, meditate on knowing & not knowing, then to be or not to be.Then throw them a side as to become them.

Zen Flesh Zen Bones
by Nyogen Senzaki and Paul Reps
my first book
translation mine


ps.D.T Suzuki books were my first books
in which i (meet) enter zen
no need for mathematic !!!
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Larry
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Larry » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:07 am

Enver M. wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:06 am
ps.D.T Suzuki books were my first books
in which i (meet) enter zen
:namaste:

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Enver M.
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Re: meaning or nonsense?

Post by Enver M. » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:25 am

:namaste:
no need for mathematic !!!
:waving:

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