Dear Members

News and information about the forum.
Kaya

Re: Dear Members

Post by Kaya » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:58 am
The teachers should have been more active.

That was so at Zen Forum Int.

I don't know if they were getting payment by so.

But for me they should be payed(money).
I believe owner, moderators, teachers are all unpaid volunteers. But if you want to follow through on your idea of compensating teachers for their valuable input, you could donate to their organizations as a "farewell thank you". I am sure they would appreciate it.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:50 pm

Dear Clyde,

I'm a yoga teacher since 1980, and teach Buddhist Yoga, as well as the specific exercises, self-massage, and postures taught by my late teacher, Ch'an Master Sheng Yen and his Dharma successors (such as Guo Gu teaches), and of Sheng Yen's six or seven meditation methods for new practitioners. I am not "transmitted" in the Ch'an or Zen traditions, but I am however "cer-tif-i-cate-ed" ;) by traditional-style Yoga schools and teachers, besides (I own that certification is no guarantee of continuing or improving quality, but I'd say it's an entree).

As a teacher, then, even as 'just' a teacher of "gym", I leave it to you, Clyde, whether my membership be yanked or not from this space. Either will be ok. All's well.

best,

--Joe

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Mason
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Re: Dear Members

Post by Mason » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:57 pm

If Joe were deleted from the forum, I doubt I'd participate any longer.
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Dear Members

Post by Fruitzilla » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:04 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:50 pm
Dear Clyde,

I'm a yoga teacher since 1980, and teach Buddhist Yoga, as well as the specific exercises, self-massage, and postures taught by my late teacher, Ch'an Master Sheng Yen and his Dharma successors (such as Guo Gu teaches), and of Sheng Yen's six or seven meditation methods for new practitioners. I am not "transmitted" in the Ch'an or Zen traditions, but I am however "cer-tif-i-cate-ed" ;) by traditional-style Yoga schools and teachers, besides (I own that certification is no guarantee of continuing or improving quality, but I'd say it's an entree).

As a teacher, then, even as 'just' a teacher of "gym", I leave it to you, Clyde, whether my membership be yanked or not from this space. Either will be ok. All's well.

best,

--Joe
Clyde is clearly talking about Zen teachers. I'm a teacher myself, and I suppose there's others here also. There's no need to make more of it than it obviously is, no?

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:12 pm

hi, Fruitz
Fruitzilla wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:04 pm
There's no need to make more of it than it obviously is, no?
If that is so, please share that truth with Clyde. :namaste:

--Joe

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clyde
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Re: Dear Members

Post by clyde » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:16 pm

Joe; You raised a good point about “teachers”.

To be clear, I mean ordained Zen teachers.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Dear Members

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:16 pm
Joe; You raised a good point about “teachers”.

To be clear, I mean ordained Zen teachers.
Clyde, but any ordained teacher could make an account without mentioning that they're a teacher right?
I mean I invited my own teacher to the forum, who knows perhaps she's a member here without me knowing :cat:

I really thought you meant teachers in the sense of having a teachers "class" within the forum, I wouldn't discriminate between teachers or none teachers as members, but again I will be supportive if you're going to make the changes, who knows if it turns out a "blessing or a curse" but again it seems a bit odd that teachers may be under us without us knowing, which is interesting for obvious reasons (attachment to name and form to name one)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Dear Members

Post by loves' the unjust » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:40 pm

Old ZFI was a legend.
cooper

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fuki
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Re: Dear Members

Post by fuki » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:46 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:40 pm
Old ZFI was a legend.
A legend in drama for sure :lol:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

.joop
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Re: Dear Members

Post by .joop » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 pm

I believe that asking teachers to take a powder from this forum is a terrible mistake. In fact, I believe it does harm. Why in the world would we not want to avail ourselves of the input of teachers like Meido on topics we practioners discuss? Its like watching a library or museum burn down.
Asking teachers to leave only leaves the forum more liable to take over by those contributors "confronting delusion" to suck all the remaining air from this board, like what helped bring down the curtain at ZFI.
This is a terrible mistake. I'm only in to say I'm out.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:07 pm

'd afternoon,
clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:16 pm
Joe; You raised a good point about “teachers”.

To be clear, I mean ordained Zen teachers.
Thank you, Clyde. I'll maintain my non-endowed chair, then? Ooops, I don't much sit in a chair, except for typing on this trusty old laptop (knock wood).

:namaste:

New Year's wishes, and thanks for your service to this Board and the Dharma,

--Joe

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Anders
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Re: Dear Members

Post by Anders » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:45 pm

I can't support this new direction, so I will be departing Zen space as well. I hope nonetheless that it will be supremely beneficial for those who stay.

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clyde
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Re: Dear Members

Post by clyde » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:17 pm

.joop wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 pm
I believe that asking teachers to take a powder from this forum is a terrible mistake. In fact, I believe it does harm. Why in the world would we not want to avail ourselves of the input of teachers like Meido on topics we practioners discuss? Its like watching a library or museum burn down.
Asking teachers to leave only leaves the forum more liable to take over by those contributors "confronting delusion" to suck all the remaining air from this board, like what helped bring down the curtain at ZFI.
This is a terrible mistake. I'm only in to say I'm out.
I understand members having reactions to forum changes, but I cannot understand why a non-member would join to express their disapproval. I think this falls into the category of disingenuous.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

Kaya

Re: Dear Members

Post by Kaya » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:12 pm

.joop wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 pm
I believe that asking teachers to take a powder from this forum is a terrible mistake. In fact, I believe it does harm. Why in the world would we not want to avail ourselves of the input of teachers like Meido on topics we practioners discuss? Its like watching a library or museum burn down.
Asking teachers to leave only leaves the forum more liable to take over by those contributors "confronting delusion" to suck all the remaining air from this board, like what helped bring down the curtain at ZFI.
This is a terrible mistake. I'm only in to say I'm out.
It is not up to members to prevail upon volunteers to apportion delivery of expert services. Read Meido's post. He has limited time, and is available to you via discussion or direct pm at another on-line venue. He and Guo Gu deserve nothing but thanks for their contributions here. They owe you nothing.
clyde wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:17 pm
I understand members having reactions to forum changes, but I cannot understand why a non-member would join to express their disapproval. I think this falls into the category of disingenuous.
Clyde paid the cost to be the boss. No blame if he doesn't want to moderate teachers. Read Jundo's crap, and see where that went.

If you want to volunteer to moderate teachers, then consider proposing to Clyde what you have to offer, and why you would provide a good and valuable service for the benefit of all.

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Dear Members

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:39 pm

Some members may have lately cashed-in their chips and departed the casino, but I note that the number of members has recently only increased.

Maybe the number does not yet reflect departures from the roster.

Strong practice!, members, ex-members, non-members, and everybody else too, Hungry Ghosts, etc., cats and dogs,

(feeding-time here at my cattery, pardon me as I attend to the menagerie, and to keep them from nipping and gnawing-about at my ankles)

--Joe

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KeithA
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Re: Dear Members

Post by KeithA » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:15 am

An interesting, and dare I say, bold initiative. :112:

I don't know where it will lead, but I do know the concept of a Zen forum has been an abysmal failure at every attempt.

The teacher/student thing is really central to Zen Buddhism. In fact, if there is no teacher/student relationship, then it isn't Zen Buddhism. But, it falls apart in a mixed tradition online forum. Clyde's point about seeking out the teacher, if so desired, is a pretty solid one, imho.

Round and round...


_/|\_
Keith
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Re: Dear Members

Post by Friend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:15 am

KeithA wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:15 am
An interesting, and dare I say, bold initiative. :112:

I don't know where it will lead, but I do know the concept of a Zen forum has been an abysmal failure at every attempt.

The teacher/student thing is really central to Zen Buddhism. In fact, if there is no teacher/student relationship, then it isn't Zen Buddhism. But, it falls apart in a mixed tradition online forum. Clyde's point about seeking out the teacher, if so desired, is a pretty solid one, imho.

Round and round...


_/|\_
Keith
Keith, you have to go as well?
Keith Angilly is the Head Dharma Teacher of the New Haven Zen Center. He is a Senior Dharma Teacher in the Kwan Um School of Zen and lives in Meriden, CT with his wife and son.

http://wyeth-test.com/trinzen/our-teachers/

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clyde
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Re: Dear Members

Post by clyde » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 am

Friend; Thank you for your concern, but no, Keith will not have to go. He is not an ordained Zen Teacher. Lay teachers are welcome.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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Re: Dear Members

Post by Friend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:13 am

clyde wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 am
Friend; Thank you for your concern, but no, Keith will not have to go. He is not an ordained Zen Teacher. Lay teachers are welcome.
Your posted rules do not say that. Are you going to change them now? What is the difference a Zen teacher and a Zen teacher here? What does "monk, priest or teacher" mean?
This forum is specifically for lay-people and not for Zen monks, priests, or teachers. I have the utmost respect for Zen teachers and the special relationship they form with students, but an informal and open forum is not conducive to such relationships and the presence of Zen teachers is not conducive to an informal and open discussion of students and the curious talking about “Zen”.

The forum is not a substitute for a Zen teacher and the student-teacher relationship. At best it’s a poor substitute for a sangha. But it’s an OK substitute for Dharma friends. It’s best as an addition to our practice.

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clyde
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Re: Dear Members

Post by clyde » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:26 am

Yes, Friend, it was my intention when I wrote, “not for Zen monks, priests, or teachers,” to mean ordained persons. I have added the word “ordained” to avoid future confusion.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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