Koans that you have made

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:21 am

The manta ray wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:05 pm
Say something without uttering a word, say nothing through spoken word. Quick make haste, or be on your way, you lonely fool.
Look! (see!).

No fools here, though, ...who reply to your post. ;)

--Joe

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:55 pm

[james] wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:05 am
fuki wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:02 pm
... so "Vuijst" is not me or not-me, just expedient means)
Expedient means self, manifesting
“Vuijst” a momentary arrangement
Within a momentary arrangement
It's a good day to practice zen.
cooper

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[james]
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by [james] » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:47 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:55 pm
It's a good day to practice zen.
It could be if you make it so.
15 years is a long time in a short life.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:08 pm

:560:
[james] wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:47 pm
Enver M. wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:55 pm
It's a good day to practice zen.
It could be if you make it so.
15 years is a long time in a short life.
Yes, brother i've spend all my life with thinking.
cooper

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clyde
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by clyde » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:36 pm

I’ve been traveling the past 2 weeks and a koan arose. Here it is:


While reading the thread, “Koans that you have made”, I remembered this story:
Huangbo Xiyun once declared to his disciples, “Throughout all of China there are no teachers of Zen.”   

                One of his monks objected, “How can you say that?  Aren’t we all here students of Zen?”           

                “I didn’t say there was no Zen,” Huangbo told him, “I only pointed out that there were no teachers of Zen.”

[Huangbo Xiyun – Zen Masters of China: 181, 192-95, 218]
I wonder, “In all the Internets, there are no Zen forums.”

I ask, “How can I say that? Isn’t this a Zen forum?”

“I didn’t say there were no forums, I only pointed out there is no Zen there.”


Is there anyone who wants a Zen forum enough to be a member and participate by initiating new threads about the Zen Way and replying to existing threads? And who and why would they join?

Maybe Zen students (those who study and practice Zen with the guidance of a Zen teacher), especially experienced students, who want to encourage others to take on or continue the practice by sharing their experiences and understanding. We have a few, but where are the rest?

Maybe ‘students of Zen’ (those who study and practice Zen, but without a teacher) who want to encourage others in the Zen Way by sharing their experiences and understanding and/or are seeking the benefit of a sangha. We have a few, but where are the rest?

Maybe the curious or newbie who has questions about the Zen Way. This forum is definitely for their benefit.

I’m here because I have affection and appreciation for the Zen Way, and want to support the Zen Way.


Why are you here?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by desert_woodworker » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Good to see you back, Clyde.

I see another reason that some may be here, and that is to share and practice our own expression of our appreciation of Zen Buddhist practice and teaching. This is different from just posting quotes or internet memes by other writers, quoting scripture, or rehearsing koans. I find that the practitioner's own commentary or description and understanding from direct experience is the most valuable and palatable product here.

If you work formally and traditionally with a Zen Buddhist teacher and sangha, you come to know that expression needs development, and practice. With some of us, I think the continuous practice of expression becomes habitual (not to say "automatic", though, as its practice requires some dedication of application). Thus, in short, the urge to "express" may bring some people to Zen Buddhist discussion sites.

Yet another reason that some of us pop up in written fora such as this is that Writing is/may be our "medium", or perhaps because writing is our weak-point and we feel we must strengthen it.

Another reason is to keep all wheels engaged: Practice; and the practice of written expression as well as of spoken and deedful expression in daily life.

Yet another reason still, is a natural cleaving to sangha: wishing to join and enjoy the company of the ranks of like-minded practitioners, or those just joining practice -- and share, as it says in this forum's mission-statement -- "our knowledge and experience".

There is also an avenue here for natural expression of true Compassion, as well as of ordinary, deluded, warm Human sympathy and concern.

It takes all kinds.

And usually all kinds of reasons and inclinations are contained in any one of us.

What's most forward in the moment is what moves us to post responsibly.

--Joe

EDIT: p.s.: below is a graphic word-cloud of the text of my post just above. -J.


wordcloud_Joe.jpg
Word-cloud of the text of my post above. --Joe
.
wordcloud_Joe.jpg (79.17 KiB) Viewed 795 times

Below is a word-cloud of the text of Clyde's post, above. I do not include the quoted words of Ch'an Master Huangbo:

wordcloud_Clyde.jpg
wordcloud_Clyde.jpg (67.7 KiB) Viewed 795 times

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clyde
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by clyde » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:59 am

Joe; I think we’re saying much the same thing at least when it comes to expressing/sharing our experiences, practices, and understanding of the teachings; also the desire for the benefits and companionship of sangha, and of course the expression of compassion.

I think your point about writing as practice is an additional reason I overlooked.

Whatever the reasons, I hope others will join us in sharing the Zen Way.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

zenartisan
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by zenartisan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:33 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:44 pm
wishing to join and enjoy the company of the ranks of like-minded practitioners
If we are "like minded", there is no joining. We already belong.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:10 am

clyde wrote: Huangbo Xiyun once declared to his disciples, “Throughout all of China there are no teachers of Zen.”   

                One of his monks objected, “How can you say that?  Aren’t we all here students of Zen?”           

                “I didn’t say there was no Zen,” Huangbo told him, “I only pointed out that there were no teachers of Zen.”

[Huangbo Xiyun – Zen Masters of China: 181, 192-95, 218]
Good koan thanks for sharing.
cooper

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by desert_woodworker » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:29 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:10 am
Good koan thanks for sharing.
In fact, there IS no Zen, even though the Ch'an master did not say so. But, there is correct Zen Buddhist practice. Teachers (and the environment and sangha surrounding them) teach that.

(wishes to you again, Enver, that you may find such a situation if you want to and can safely do so, even in a Muslim-majority country).

A koan is only a koan when the practice of it is a practice between teacher and student. Lacking that, it's a quaint or puzzling story otherwise, just empty-calories for the sugar-burning, moving-mind, an overload for the pancreas. Definitely no "Zen" in that! ;)

Granted, I know that John Tarrant Roshi has a looser view, and he expresses it in his THE LIGHT INSIDE THE DARK, ...but he is a Zen Buddhist teacher, and would like you to come practice with him anyway.

As I see it.

--Joe

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Koans that you have made

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:40 pm

desert_woodworker wrote: In fact, there IS no Zen, even though the Ch'an master did not say so. But, there is correct Zen Buddhist practice. Teachers (and the environment and sangha surrounding them) teach that.
Exactly.%100 with you here.
After 15 years i actually hardly yet come to the gateway of the practice.One more thing i discover last night.it is no mind zen.it requires no mind as if you don't know what you are doing.i liked that style.I think i'll go along my journey with it.
A koan is only a koan when the practice of it is a practice between teacher and student. Lacking that, it's a quaint or puzzling story otherwise, just empty-calories for the sugar-burning, moving-mind, an overload for the pancreas. Definitely no "Zen" in that! ;)

Granted, I know that John Tarrant Roshi has a looser view, and he expresses it in his THE LIGHT INSIDE THE DARK, ...but he is a Zen Buddhist teacher, and would like you to come practice with him anyway.
I had heard about him.I'm sure he is definetely and inteligently a qualified master.Especially if you commend.But I'm on the side to look after my own parents for now.As they are very old, tired and ill.In this way i'm hoping to come some several progress also.This may also prevent from waste of years.I had said before the accessible teacher is the best.And you are the closest one having time with me recently.

Thank you friend.
cooper

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