Who are you?

Discussion of Zen Buddhism.
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clyde
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Re: Who are you?

Post by clyde » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:48 pm

This morning, like most mornings, I don’t remember awakening. But for a time I did the following exercise: Each night as I laid down to sleep I thought of my intention to awaken the next morning with awareness of awakening. Of course, I failed and failed and failed again . . . until one morning I awoke, got out of bed, and stood looking out the window without ‘me’, without a life history of Clyde. After only a few moments I felt ‘my life’ coming over me like putting on a robe. But for a few moments I was simply awake.

So, who am I? Not me, not anyone.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:52 pm

clyde wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:48 pm
. . . until one morning I awoke, got out of bed, and stood looking out the window without ‘me’, without a life history of Clyde. After only a few moments I felt ‘my life’ coming over me like putting on a robe. But for a few moments I was simply awake.
And then stumbling upon an image in the bathroom mirror and not recognizing your "own" face :D

I never got why people take so much time putting on robes and facial stuff in the mirror anyway, yesterday a seagull flew over and for a moment "I" was looking out of the bird's eye looking at "myself" sitting on the balcony, I'd say we're both stunning vehicles :lol:

In each Eye the Source :109:
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clyde
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Re: Who are you?

Post by clyde » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:08 pm

Enlightenment on the Wings of a Gull

The spring moon above –
The shadow of a gull,
And I have wings!


- written 50 years ago
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:29 pm

clyde wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:08 pm
Enlightenment on the Wings of a Gull

The spring moon above –
The shadow of a gull,
And I have wings!


- written 50 years ago
Wonderful, thanks!
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avisitor
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Re: Who are you?

Post by avisitor » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:01 am

Had a dream where I was waiting for four hours at a restaurant for a table.
Was feeling the maitre'd was treating me unfairly.
Was feeling anger for this reason.
Woke up as I realized that I was sleeping and didn't want to be that person with the anger
So, I know who I want to be but I am not that person ... yet

Who am I?
This person with all these issues .. anger, greed, fear, lust, desires, wants, delusions, ignorance
These things don't just go away. They have been in play since childhood.
Force of habit, momentum ...

What to do about it?
Be here, be present, be aware of the feelings and behaviors
Make a change as I see the feelings, delusions, ignorance arise in me

Do I expecting anything to come from doing this?
No, I just want to be the person I think I want to be.
Still just an illusion, but it makes my heart feel warm like sun shine on the face

I wish everyone luck on their path
To me it is the journey that is important

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:57 am

All biological beings want to love and be loved, want to be kind and receive kindness.
But yes most at an early age experience hurt or trauma and that energy transforms and manifests as kleshas, so yes in that way we are (as persons) the totality of all our past relations, hence the seemingly smallest actions of body, speech and mind has deep impacts and consequences in the totality of manifested and unmanifested existence.

We are afterall "the universe experiencing itself" and there's really no such thing as "my life" or "your life" "my birth/death" or "my liberation" we're in it (but not of it) "together" :111:
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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Who are you?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm

fuki wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:28 am
avisitor wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:08 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:37 pm
I'm a disembodied spirit
Did Buddha teach that there is a spirit?
I thought once a person passes away that there is no spirit, no soul.

The conscious person is made up from the five aggregates or five Skandhas
The five are .. the body, feelings, perceptions, mental activity, consciousness
These things create the mind or ego or personality
When the body is gone, there is no place for feelings, perceptions, mental activity or consciousness to reside
No spirit, no soul. :103:
Correct, yet what the Buddha taught was of expedient service, soul or no-soul self- or no self are both no truths in/by itself, both can be used as expedient means (to whom it may apply) people usually dont like to hear it but none of the Buddha's words were "truth" of themselves, it merely has expedient medicinal value, so be careful to apply the medicine of no-self-no soul etc it can enhance delusion as much as the notion of "self" in fact it often enhances the virus. permanence/impermance self/no-self, duality/non-duality these are ALL false ideas, but can serve as medicine where applicable. Be careful to prescribe, sometimes the medicine is the sickness.
truefact

I intentionally answered it incorrectly because the question is also asked incorrectly. There is no "I" that can answer "who am I?" Therefor to answer it is to answer incorrectly.

5 skandhas - nothing else

5 skandhas which are only Emptiness

There is no "I" because there is no "self." Everything that arises must arise with conditions, "I" arises together with "not I", but because Emptiness is beyond dualism, "I" "not-I", "self", "non-self" remind me of a disembodied spirit, a phantom, a bubble, thats here only for a moment, trapped inside stony walls of birth and death on all sides
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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clyde
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Re: Who are you?

Post by clyde » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm
I intentionally answered it incorrectly . . .
It seems you have a provisional “I”.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:59 am

ईश्वरः अहम्
Ishvara, I am.

:cat:
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avisitor
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Re: Who are you?

Post by avisitor » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:26 pm

clyde wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm
I intentionally answered it incorrectly . . .
It seems you have a provisional “I”.
Is there a like button ... lol

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:38 pm

clyde wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm
I intentionally answered it incorrectly . . .
It seems you have a provisional “I”.
miscellaneous-dustpan-brush-sweep-sweeping-clean-gra070409_low.jpg
miscellaneous-dustpan-brush-sweep-sweeping-clean-gra070409_low.jpg (45.67 KiB) Viewed 1024 times
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Re: Who are you?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:27 pm

clyde wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 am
Great Sage EofH wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm
I intentionally answered it incorrectly . . .
It seems you have a provisional “I”.
a construct, a mental formation, part of the evolution of the human (an animal) brain, something that exists because we are trying to continue to exist as a unit of our species, but we are too willing to sacrifice for whatever temporal whimsey the species decides to follow (politics, religion, business, war), a complicated, messy "Self"
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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fuki
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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:45 pm

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:27 pm
part of the evolution of the human (an animal) brain, something that exists because we are trying to continue to exist as a unit of our species, but we are too willing to sacrifice for whatever temporal whimsey the species decides to follow (politics, religion, business, war), a complicated, messy "Self"
Ah, the entire universe is this "I" one cannot part with it, hence the foolishness of peoples effort to liberated themselves as if their "I" was a seperate existing part or entity, it is only this pseudo-entity which is in need of "liberation" once the basic illusion of the manifested universe is understood, all brains, species, daily activities continue as usual with the only difference being that one does not identify with the body-mind complex and understands there is no pseudo entity capable of bondage or liberation, life spontaneously manifests and becomes a universal benediction. There is no universe nor any species form or formless without this "I" the illusion and all the suffering comes from what is imparted on it, like "I am this or that" I am human etc "I" is Buddha, no "I" no Buddha! :hatsoff:
So what is our true nature prior to Buddha?
:cat:
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Re: Who are you?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:42 pm

fuki wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:45 pm
There is no universe nor any species form or formless without this "I" the illusion and all the suffering comes from what is imparted on it, like "I am this or that" I am human etc "I" is Buddha, no "I" no Buddha! :hatsoff:
So what is our true nature prior to Buddha?
:cat:
The Don't-Know Nature

:113:
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: Who are you?

Post by fuki » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:02 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:42 pm

The Don't-Know Nature

:113:
Finally we are getting nowhere, how liberating! :109:

[SPOILER]
“When your study of Buddhism is through,
you find you haven’t anything new.”

~Bankei

There are no religions where we’re going
after death, so why indulge them here?

Not to cast undue aspersions,
but religions mostly are perversions.

Two or three are always warring,
but then there is Buddhism –

Buddhism is boring.

Buddhism is mostly about consciousness,
but consciousness itself is mostly stressful
(and if truth be told, fundamentally tedious).

Boredom is consciousness modifying itself
endlessly, for the sake of endless modification.

Ho Hum. Hum drum. Dum de dum dum . . .

Boredom can never transcend itself —
not by inference, accident, or incident.

If we imagine there is a “beyond consciousness”,
that thought is in consciousness, and boring.

It’s been said by Buddhists that
to study Buddhism is to study the self,
but what could be more tiresome?

To study the self is to forget the self —
that’s just how boring it can be!

Form,
Sensation,
Perception,
Mental Formation,
Consciousness —

boring or not, these 5 aggregates
are my favorite fantasy playground.

Still, in a ceaseless game of names
with no players, what’s in a name?

“Self” or “not-self” –
who gives a prajna paramita?

This manifesto has yet to be moderated.
If I were to really say it, nothing would change.

Paradoxically, nothing stays the same.
That’s enough for direct introductions.

There, I’ve said it!

Buddhist practice is first to stop.

Don’t move!

That’s the compassionate thing to do.
Compassion is simply to watch
where you’re going.

You’re going nowhere.

That is realization, even though
there is nothing to realize.

Right now, just sit.

It won’t hurt anybody.
“Anybody” is in consciousness.

If you believe there is anybody
beyond consciousness, that belief
is in consciousness (and boring).

Meanwhile, whether it exists or not,
the whole phenomenal world is
alive with the sound of music.

Maybe the music is extra,
but whatever it is, it is not Buddhist,
not boring, not greedy, envious, or deluded.

It’s not an inference or direct realization,
not a conception nor perception,
not anything special or not.

This whatever it is – nothing in particular —
just quiescently rests in serene moderation,
right on the verge of a lyrical extinction.

Nirvana means extinction.
Hey, here’s a tune:

“Gone, gone, gone beyond.
Gone beyond the beyond.”

Gone fishing.

Master says: “Sit and fish.”

Yes, just sit. Sit and sit
in your own fishing pit.

Here’s the best tool
in your karma repair kit:

be bored.

Be bored of all strategies,
schemes and methods, all religions,
philosophies, and paths up a mountain
that promise a trip to the best fishing hole.

Be bored for the sake of all sentience,
for the merciful sake of all bored fishes
for goodness gracious, tightly wrapped up
in sutra scrolls, awaiting a nice hot hibachi,
some dark sesame oil and a rich soy sauce,
perhaps with an Asahi, or two, or three.

Real practice is not some big excitement.

It’s not about seeking elsewhere,
nor scouting for some other fabled place
in space or time to cast a virtual story line;
just enjoying the fishing thing, the skandhas
and whatnot, the quintessential aspect of boring
Buddhism, the dream of fish grilled beyond thought,
beyond any comprehension of the intellect, beyond any
person or thing with a name of form – Awareness Itself:

nothing in particular, not this or that, just what it is,
what it was and will be, like letting the dog
out to pee, for ever and ever, beyond
no and never. Amen.
Buddhism is Boring by Bob; (you'll enjoy this Eric)
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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Who are you?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:46 pm

They tell me I've got it all wrong
When I say one moment is the same as all moments,
One place is the same as all places.
They tell me if it really looks that way to me,
I'm doomed, I'm in error.
But when I sit on the spot,
I travel seamlessly through space and time,
I smile,
and it tastes like butter.
I let it come in the front door,
and go out the back.
No blame.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: Who are you?

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:52 pm

Who am I ?

Wait,

what,

who is asking?
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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