Back pain

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Dan74
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Re: Back pain

Post by Dan74 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:19 pm

Great thread!!! :bow2: :bow2: :bow2:

Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).

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fuki
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Re: Back pain

Post by fuki » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:09 pm

Wow so many good suggestions!

:bow2:
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lobster
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Re: Back pain

Post by lobster » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:27 pm

I too find Victors advice potentially helpful. :bow2:

You could try standing (Zhan Zhuang) or walking meditation or asanas. :558:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/25495 ... le-posture

I am finding new ways of being mindful in a long kept yoga asana, which is informed by seated practice. Full lotus is of course an asana ... :namaste:

Hope you find what you need ... :hatsoff:

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[james]
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Re: Back pain

Post by [james] » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:57 am

It is also useful in educating the back muscles to sit upright whenever using a chair. No slouching or leaning against the chair back. Sit up close to the front edge of the seat, legs positioned to balance the upper body. Make this a habitual way of sitting, when dining for example, or when reading or working at a table or desk. No need to sit still ... move and shift your position as much as you want, but maintain the flexibly upright spine and settled shoulders. As the upper and lower back muscles strengthen and adjust this will become a very comfortable way to sit and will carry over to less discomfort in meditation whatever sitting position you adopt.

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Re: Back pain

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am

Dan74 wrote:Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).
I always thought that's just part of the deal. It has taken me years to be able to sit for 45 minutes without moving. It's still a challenge, but I think the body has adapted to it, or I've gotten used to it - whatever the reason, now I can actually manage it. (Although not every time. I remember reading Jan de Wetering's The Empty Mirror decades ago, where he said that sitting zazen when he joined the monastery was like 'sitting on an ant heap' for hours at a time.)
The most important thing is not at all important.

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Back pain

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:50 am

Oddly, progressive stretching if the hamstring muscles has proven to be the most helpful for me. I get these movements from physical therapy as well as yoga. My problem area is Lumbar #4 & #5
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Re: Back pain

Post by Nothing » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:13 pm

lobster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:27 pm

I am finding new ways of being mindful in a long kept yoga asana, which is informed by seated practice. Full lotus is of course an asana ... :namaste:
In my little experience long(er) kept asanas no matter about which body part are crucial for increasing flexibility and for dealing with certain body pain.

Viktor

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lobster
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Re: Back pain

Post by lobster » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:48 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:19 pm
Great thread!!! :bow2: :bow2: :bow2:

Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).
Wot not even dancing meditation practice? :jaw:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/mao5yrX4gHw[/youtube]

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fuki
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Re: Back pain

Post by fuki » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am
Dan74 wrote:Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).
I always thought that's just part of the deal. It has taken me years to be able to sit for 45 minutes without moving. It's still a challenge, but I think the body has adapted to it, or I've gotten used to it - whatever the reason, now I can actually manage it. (Although not every time. I remember reading Jan de Wetering's The Empty Mirror decades ago, where he said that sitting zazen when he joined the monastery was like 'sitting on an ant heap' for hours at a time.)
My longest session was 8 hours, but I was in ridiculous physical shape back then, and in ridiculous bad shape now :mrgreen:

The long sittings didn't do much good apart from a clever tactic to avoid daily life and to grasp (with the delusion of not seeking) exalted states of consciousness, figuring it would lead to "enlightenment". As if there's some causal connection between practise and wisdom! :lol:

Haven't got a photo yet (Jundo) but will come, will join the new group March 8th. Send good Nen. :111:

ps Lobby, the youtube code works like this;

Code: Select all

[youtube]mao5yrX4gHw[/youtube]
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Fruitzilla
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Re: Back pain

Post by Fruitzilla » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:31 pm

fuki wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am
Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am
Dan74 wrote:Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).
I always thought that's just part of the deal. It has taken me years to be able to sit for 45 minutes without moving. It's still a challenge, but I think the body has adapted to it, or I've gotten used to it - whatever the reason, now I can actually manage it. (Although not every time. I remember reading Jan de Wetering's The Empty Mirror decades ago, where he said that sitting zazen when he joined the monastery was like 'sitting on an ant heap' for hours at a time.)
My longest session was 8 hours, but I was in ridiculous physical shape back then, and in ridiculous bad shape now :mrgreen:

The long sittings didn't do much good apart from a clever tactic to avoid daily life and to grasp (with the delusion of not seeking) exalted states of consciousness, figuring it would lead to "enlightenment". As if there's some causal connection between practise and wisdom! :lol:

Haven't got a photo yet (Jundo) but will come, will join the new group March 8th. Send good Nen. :111:

ps Lobby, the youtube code works like this;

Code: Select all

[youtube]mao5yrX4gHw[/youtube]
If you want to I'll have a look at the photo too. I'll probably have some tips. I'm a certified Alexander Technique teacher, so I know a bit about posture. Although I like the word poise a whole lot better :-)

Edit: spelling

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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Back pain

Post by Great Sage EofH » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:49 am

Hot tubs are great too
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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lindama
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Re: Back pain

Post by lindama » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:04 am

I'm familiar with zen customs around this. It works for some. Physical limitations have to be taken into consideration. I know many old timers who ruined their knees and backs when they were young taking zen meditation to the extreme when it did not serve them. Nowadays, we see back braces and chairs...

it's akin to what I did with my working life when I was young.... the song goes: "work your fingers to the bone... what do you get? ....Boney fingers" :) never mind, google it if you wish on youtube (ah hum).. Boney Fingers, Hoyt Axton. Smiles, it was my exit song from corporate life in the 80's.

Fuki... are you saying that you sat for 8 hr straight? wow... that would make boney knees. In my sangha, it was sitting and walking meditation to give the body a break. We had a bit of body stuff like yoga, etc. in the afternoons at sesshin.

Going beyond back pain, fortunately most of us can still walk, so I will offer this. It could easily go in the psychology thread as well. For me, walking meditation is ofc exactly what is says... and it's more. My first sesshin when I knew nothing, up to today... walking meditation is a vehicle for joining a community in spirit, so to speak, a sangha. To sink deeply into walking, step by step, following the person in front, not knowing where you are are going, sensing the circle of souls (pardon the word) who are walking together. It opens the transpersonal heart... that is, if you forget about saying so. There is no need for me to protect myself or have any control, I'm just following .... there is a deep sense of community. It isn't for me. I've had my issues with defense, disassociation, and the like. In the embrace of the heart mind of sesshin, no need. It doesn't take years and years. It takes a whole hearted giving up, just noticing the walking. A strong heart has the ability to notice our heartbreaks.

As far as the numbness, I had a teacher who taught us how to sit to avoid that.... can't remember exactly, it had something to do with how to sit on the sitz bones (on buttocks). Maybe somebody knows.

linda
Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am
Dan74 wrote:Thinking of starting my own (pain in the leg joints and numbness in the feet that nothing's helped so far).
I always thought that's just part of the deal. It has taken me years to be able to sit for 45 minutes without moving. It's still a challenge, but I think the body has adapted to it, or I've gotten used to it - whatever the reason, now I can actually manage it. (Although not every time. I remember reading Jan de Wetering's The Empty Mirror decades ago, where he said that sitting zazen when he joined the monastery was like 'sitting on an ant heap' for hours at a time.)

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fuki
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Re: Back pain

Post by fuki » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:59 pm

Thanks for the help again everyone :bow2:

just came back from first group practise with the new teacher/sangha and after a few corrections it made all the difference. :D
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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desert_woodworker
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Re: Back pain

Post by desert_woodworker » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Meditate in headstand.

--Joe
"Ignorance is to be ignorant of one's original mind." - Ma Tsu

"Liberation is awakening to one's original nature." - Ma Tsu

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fuki
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Re: Back pain

Post by fuki » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:05 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:11 pm
Meditate in headstand.

--Joe
got no head for meditation :cat:

besides too much blood in that private part is not conducive to awakening.
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https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Re: Back pain

Post by desert_woodworker » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:10 pm

A fact about yoga asanas which I have always told students is that "asana" means "seat". Seat for what? Seat for meditation.

In any pose..., posture..., asana..., one can be in meditative poise and easiness of concentration.

If not yet, then that's what "practice" is for. And then, to maintain that ease (and settledness, balance, strength).

"Take" tree-pose, vrksasana:

vrksasana-yoga-pose-jack-cuneo.jpg
vrksasana-yoga-pose-jack-cuneo.jpg (74.02 KiB) Viewed 397 times
--Joe

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