Whats your practice?

Discussion of Zen Buddhism, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Seon and Thien.

Moderator: Spiritual Do-gooder

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:20 pm

KeithA wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:23 am
It's possible James say a little too much here, but his discussion about kensho here is just too spot on not to share.

_/|\_
Where does he say too much?
All I see is a "description" of the unified mind which is common among mature practisioners, nowhere do I read about actual kensho let alone liberation. Could be me though and my limited interpretation perhaps you could clarify.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
Meido
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by Meido » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:00 pm

[Mod note: discussion RE Soto Zen threads at Dharma Wheel, views of Soto practice in Japan vs. Western developments, etc. moved to viewtopic.php?f=27&t=159]
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

User avatar
SunWuKong
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Alexandria Virginia

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by SunWuKong » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Once Chuang Chou dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Chuang Chou. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Chuang Chou. But he didn't know if he was Chuang Chou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Chuang Chou. Between Chuang Chou and a butterfly there must be some distinction! This is called the Transformation of Things.


:113:
--- Eric H., also know as Sun Wu Kong, "an authentic genuine human being"
Birth is thus
Death is thus
Verse or no verse
What’s the fuss?

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by KeithA » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:18 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:20 pm
KeithA wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:23 am
It's possible James say a little too much here, but his discussion about kensho here is just too spot on not to share.

_/|\_
Where does he say too much?
All I see is a "description" of the unified mind which is common among mature practisioners, nowhere do I read about actual kensho let alone liberation. Could be me though and my limited interpretation perhaps you could clarify.
Oh, I don't know...maybe I said too much! :114:

I guess don't like talking about it on a forum. Or, even in real life, except with a teacher.

Sorry, that's not much of answer, my friend. :103:

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:48 pm

KeithA wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:23 am

I guess don't like talking about it on a forum. Or, even in real life, except with a teacher.

_/|\_
Could you explain how that game to be?
I already heared a lot of ppl saying why or why not but there are a myriad of why's.

I'd appreciate if you could explain how that came to be, call it a part of my private study, for the formless libary if you will. :)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:56 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:10 pm
Once Chuang Chou dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Chuang Chou. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Chuang Chou. But he didn't know if he was Chuang Chou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Chuang Chou. Between Chuang Chou and a butterfly there must be some distinction! This is called the Transformation of Things.


:113:

Q: If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream where will it lead me?


M: Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The very idea of going beyond the dream is illusory. Why go anywhere? Just realise that you are dreaming a dream you call the world, and stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you like one part of your dream and not another. Love all, or none of it, and stop complaining. When you have seen the dream as a dream, you have done all that needs be done.
~Sri Niz
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by KeithA » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:26 pm

fuki wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:48 pm
KeithA wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:23 am

I guess don't like talking about it on a forum. Or, even in real life, except with a teacher.

_/|\_
Could you explain how that game to be?
I already heared a lot of ppl saying why or why not but there are a myriad of why's.

I'd appreciate if you could explain how that came to be, call it a part of my private study, for the formless libary if you will. :)
I just don't like discussing something that is really between the teacher and student. But, I am a traditional minded person and have respect for Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. That's not to say I think James shouldn't have written his blog, but more and more, I find online discussion of certain aspects of Zen Buddhism, such as kensho, satori, koans, etc. to be exercises in futility. It's really why I feel Zen fora in general are not easy to keep going. I am really not interested in opinions about the things I only discuss with my teacher. I am happy to shoot the shit, as they say. But, listening to Zen Buddhism being re-imagined and re-interpreted to satisfy one's ego just gives me a headache.

Sorry for the buzzkill...

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:22 pm

KeithA wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:26 pm
I find online discussion of certain aspects of Zen Buddhism, such as kensho, satori, koans, etc. to be exercises in futility. It's really why I feel Zen fora in general are not easy to keep going. I am really not interested in opinions about the things I only discuss with my teacher. I am happy to shoot the shit, as they say. But, listening to Zen Buddhism being re-imagined and re-interpreted to satisfy one's ego just gives me a headache.

Sorry for the buzzkill...

_/|\_
I get that and that it is mostly futile I see that too, but also seen exceptions to the "rule" and it can be quite beautiful and reflecting when it happens spontaneously. but mostly its poopy indeed, not sure why you add a buzzkill to the soup I had no expectations so your reply is welcomed. And online discussion will always differ from offline its unrealistic to think it will ever be free of self referential stuff or ego boosting, I actually like it since you get to deal with all kinds of ppl and opinions you wont hear in a Sangha, that way it can be a mirror for one's vexations which I consider a blessing to observe. I enjoy ppls accounts about Samadhi their koan practise or whatever especially in a "ask a teacher" part of the forum.

I find ppls reactions and the results of the reactions interesting to observe, not so much the content of the speech but how it triggers reaction and if ppl are pleased or displeased about a comment and how that often turns into locking some name and avatar in a mental picture which then is food for future preconceived notions "oh he again etc" I remember me and Joe discussed Samadhi experiences on zfi and lots of ppl got vexated, that is very interesting. I also remember Jundo asked Joe to confirm an awakening experience and he gave a beautiful description which was also frowned upon by some, I find that sad, sharing certain experiences/discussions through the interweb (when the conditions and circumstance are ripe) can spontaneously inspire and motivate or open up to whoever is ready sometimes happens spontaneously instead of just sticking "holy silence". When "minds meet" on a forum is lovely doesnt happen often but it can.

Anyway you're still the life of the party for me, sorry. :P
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by KeithA » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:13 am

fuki wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:22 pm
KeithA wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:26 pm
I find online discussion of certain aspects of Zen Buddhism, such as kensho, satori, koans, etc. to be exercises in futility. It's really why I feel Zen fora in general are not easy to keep going. I am really not interested in opinions about the things I only discuss with my teacher. I am happy to shoot the shit, as they say. But, listening to Zen Buddhism being re-imagined and re-interpreted to satisfy one's ego just gives me a headache.

Sorry for the buzzkill...

_/|\_
I get that and that it is mostly futile I see that too, but also seen exceptions to the "rule" and it can be quite beautiful and reflecting when it happens spontaneously. but mostly its poopy indeed, not sure why you add a buzzkill to the soup I had no expectations so your reply is welcomed. And online discussion will always differ from offline its unrealistic to think it will ever be free of self referential stuff or ego boosting, I actually like it since you get to deal with all kinds of ppl and opinions you wont hear in a Sangha, that way it can be a mirror for one's vexations which I consider a blessing to observe. I enjoy ppls accounts about Samadhi their koan practise or whatever especially in a "ask a teacher" part of the forum.

I find ppls reactions and the results of the reactions interesting to observe, not so much the content of the speech but how it triggers reaction and if ppl are pleased or displeased about a comment and how that often turns into locking some name and avatar in a mental picture which then is food for future preconceived notions "oh he again etc" I remember me and Joe discussed Samadhi experiences on zfi and lots of ppl got vexated, that is very interesting. I also remember Jundo asked Joe to confirm an awakening experience and he gave a beautiful description which was also frowned upon by some, I find that sad, sharing certain experiences/discussions through the interweb (when the conditions and circumstance are ripe) can spontaneously inspire and motivate or open up to whoever is ready sometimes happens spontaneously instead of just sticking "holy silence". When "minds meet" on a forum is lovely doesnt happen often but it can.

Anyway you're still the life of the party for me, sorry. :P
Thank you, friend. I guess my response is that your examples kind of point to what I was talking about. If you mention something about an experience, people will rush in to tell you how it wasn't the "real deal" or look for you to "prove it", as if that was possible online. I also feeling like talking about these things can result in some serious pumping up one's own ego. I just think in the end, it's bad form and just not a topic worth discussing in a Zen Buddhist forum. I mean, c'mon there is rebirth to talk about!! :104: lol!

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:47 am

[SPOILER]
KeithA wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:13 am
fuki wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:22 pm
KeithA wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:26 pm
I find online discussion of certain aspects of Zen Buddhism, such as kensho, satori, koans, etc. to be exercises in futility. It's really why I feel Zen fora in general are not easy to keep going. I am really not interested in opinions about the things I only discuss with my teacher. I am happy to shoot the shit, as they say. But, listening to Zen Buddhism being re-imagined and re-interpreted to satisfy one's ego just gives me a headache.

Sorry for the buzzkill...

_/|\_
I get that and that it is mostly futile I see that too, but also seen exceptions to the "rule" and it can be quite beautiful and reflecting when it happens spontaneously. but mostly its poopy indeed, not sure why you add a buzzkill to the soup I had no expectations so your reply is welcomed. And online discussion will always differ from offline its unrealistic to think it will ever be free of self referential stuff or ego boosting, I actually like it since you get to deal with all kinds of ppl and opinions you wont hear in a Sangha, that way it can be a mirror for one's vexations which I consider a blessing to observe. I enjoy ppls accounts about Samadhi their koan practise or whatever especially in a "ask a teacher" part of the forum.

I find ppls reactions and the results of the reactions interesting to observe, not so much the content of the speech but how it triggers reaction and if ppl are pleased or displeased about a comment and how that often turns into locking some name and avatar in a mental picture which then is food for future preconceived notions "oh he again etc" I remember me and Joe discussed Samadhi experiences on zfi and lots of ppl got vexated, that is very interesting. I also remember Jundo asked Joe to confirm an awakening experience and he gave a beautiful description which was also frowned upon by some, I find that sad, sharing certain experiences/discussions through the interweb (when the conditions and circumstance are ripe) can spontaneously inspire and motivate or open up to whoever is ready sometimes happens spontaneously instead of just sticking "holy silence". When "minds meet" on a forum is lovely doesnt happen often but it can.

Anyway you're still the life of the party for me, sorry. :P
Thank you, friend. I guess my response is that your examples kind of point to what I was talking about. If you mention something about an experience, people will rush in to tell you how it wasn't the "real deal" or look for you to "prove it", as if that was possible online. I also feeling like talking about these things can result in some serious pumping up one's own ego. I just think in the end, it's bad form and just not a topic worth discussing in a Zen Buddhist forum. I mean, c'mon there is rebirth to talk about!! :104: lol!

_/|\_
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the laugh friend.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
Dan74
Site Admin
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Lyss, Switzerland

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by Dan74 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:46 am

Last Sunday I went again to the Chan Centre run by Hildi Thalmann. This time there was just me (the previous time, there were two other people who came). It's quite a nice practice space in a central Berne basement, slippers and warm socks in the foyer, lovely simple altars with a variety of zafus in a practice space separated by a bamboo screen. Hildi decked out in grey robes brought back memories of my Seon nun teacher. The practice consists of three sits facing outwards of 25 minutes each separated by brief walking meditation. Gosh, I struggle a bit - my feet go to sleep. There's some reading from talks by Master Sheng-Yen. Hildi, a retired paediatrician (I think??), tiny and energetic, is very approachable and strikes me as a genuine kindly person. I believe she knows our Guo Gu quite well.

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by KeithA » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:46 am
Last Sunday I went again to the Chan Centre run by Hildi Thalmann. This time there was just me (the previous time, there were two other people who came). It's quite a nice practice space in a central Berne basement, slippers and warm socks in the foyer, lovely simple altars with a variety of zafus in a practice space separated by a bamboo screen. Hildi decked out in grey robes brought back memories of my Seon nun teacher. The practice consists of three sits facing outwards of 25 minutes each approximately separated by brief walking meditation. Gosh, I struggle a bit - my feet go to sleep. There's some reading from talks by Master Sheng-Yen. Hildi, a retired paediatrician (I think??), tiny and energetic, is very approachable and strikes me as a genuine kindly person. I believe she knows our Guo Gu quite well.
I notice that if I sit too far back on the cushion, my legs fall asleep. It's very consistent and repeatable. So, when I sit, I make sure the cushion is under my spine and that there is no pressure whatsoever on the back of my legs. Everyone's body is different, but that works for me. :)

I am glad you found a nice place to practice. It's a true treasure.

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

Caodemarte
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: Lilburn, GA, USA

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by Caodemarte » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 pm

KeithA wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:24 pm
.......
I notice that if I sit too far back on the cushion, my legs fall asleep. It's very consistent and repeatable. So, when I sit, I make sure the cushion is under my spine and that there is no pressure whatsoever on the back of my legs....
I understand that it is pressure on the nerves in the buttocks and upper legs that almost always cause the feet and lower legs to fall asleep, not pressure on the lower body, Damage to the knee will often manifest elsewhere. Hurt your shoulder and your arms may feel pain, not your shoulder. The body tricks us all the time.

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by KeithA » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Caodemarte wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 pm
KeithA wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:24 pm
.......
I notice that if I sit too far back on the cushion, my legs fall asleep. It's very consistent and repeatable. So, when I sit, I make sure the cushion is under my spine and that there is no pressure whatsoever on the back of my legs....
I understand that it is pressure on the nerves in the buttocks and upper legs that almost always cause the feet and lower legs to fall asleep, not pressure on the lower body, Damage to the knee will often manifest elsewhere. Hurt your shoulder and your arms may feel pain, not your shoulder. The body tricks us all the time.
Definitely agree. I always go "up the chain". I discovered that the plantar fasciitis I had was calf-related. Once I mashed the tight spots loose, the PF went away almost immediately.
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by fuki » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:48 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:46 am
Last Sunday I went again to the Chan Centre run by Hildi Thalmann. This time there was just me (the previous time, there were two other people who came). It's quite a nice practice space in a central Berne basement, slippers and warm socks in the foyer, lovely simple altars with a variety of zafus in a practice space separated by a bamboo screen. Hildi decked out in grey robes brought back memories of my Seon nun teacher. The practice consists of three sits facing outwards of 25 minutes each separated by brief walking meditation. Gosh, I struggle a bit - my feet go to sleep. There's some reading from talks by Master Sheng-Yen. Hildi, a retired paediatrician (I think??), tiny and energetic, is very approachable and strikes me as a genuine kindly person. I believe she knows our Guo Gu quite well.
Checked out the site and the photos of retreats etc and looks like a great place, you're lucky to find dharma drum in Bern. I really wish they'd open up in the nl one day. My legs are asleep for an hour sometimes because the cats lay on me basically whenever they can, having cats can be physically very demanding. :lol: :cat:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

User avatar
Emmet
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:35 pm
Location: Hayesville, NC

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by Emmet » Mon May 14, 2018 10:26 am

My mind lacks discipline and is easily distracted by shiny glittery things. Depending upon how discursive, delusive, and deranged my mind is at that present moment, my practice exists on sort of a sliding scale of counting the breath, following the breath, and shikantaza.

User avatar
bokki
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by bokki » Mon May 14, 2018 2:08 pm

thank u emmet, big time.
one may have practiced shikantaza for a long time, or trained focused on a life question,

but, im sry 2 digress..

of course u know dogens koan|
: practice is enlightenment,
enlightenment is practice.

well, i practice enlightnment.

let them practice practice.
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

User avatar
bokki
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: Whats your practice?

Post by bokki » Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am

and, lol, how forgetful am i,
Emmet, Sir,
bout my practicing enlightenment?
just 2 add, u may b questioning..
an hows that going, bokki?

well , sir,

POORLY
.
but then ,
what are the
options?

b
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson

Post Reply