metta practice

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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:38 pm

Meido wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:44 pm
More generally, though: because Zen takes kensho jobutsu as its path, all the qualities of fruition - that is, embodied realization of the unity of wisdom and compassion, fulfillment of the paramitas, attainment of myriad means for helping others, etc. - are viewed as naturally fulfilled within that path. That is why things like metta practices, emphasis on the 8-fold path/4 NT, gradual path of the perfections and so on are not stressed as much: Zen's self-view is that it is a path striking directly at the one essential point that encompasses and fulfills all Buddhist teachings. But this does not mean anything is lacking. It just means that Zen has its own method/path.

~ Meido
Right but those practises of "the gradual path" are functions and arise from the one fundamental self-nature, so all differences only are seen as different due to the potential and clinging views of people. Hence when we speak about Zen it's only a conventional name and relative term to serve sentient beings. If it's functional for people to practise metta then it doesn't even matter if anyone says it isn't stressed as much in Zen, discriminating minds will be bound by the idea that metta practise is "not-Zen" At least, you know how usual neurotic works eventhough there's no increase or decrease and nothing to attain. Eventhough Zen has its own method/path, any (non)method can be used freely to self-perfection since whether one remains deluded or not is based on their own efforts, not upon whether the various teachings/methods are different or not. Before we know it as it is in the nature of forums, we'll "oppose" the direct formless path of Zen again with practises based on name and form, whatever one practises is "the perfect practise" and can be included in Zen in my view.

Any thoughts?
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lindama
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Re: metta practice

Post by lindama » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:40 pm

with Metta, there is no such thing as distance.

what Fuki said.... there is nothing that is not zen.

linda

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Larry
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Re: metta practice

Post by Larry » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:01 pm

Exactly. No "action at a distance" is just the transient view of Newtonian physics.

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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:01 pm

lindama wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:40 pm
with Metta, there is no such thing as distance.
Yes, reminds me of practising under a Reiki Master in my 20's.
There's a symbol 'bridge' called "hon-sha-ze-sho-nen" I stopped using it because I got calls at work everyday from people who asked me to fix their headaches and all such nonsense, while it's function ofcourse is about "non-dual awareness" (no past,present,future, no "here or there" "you and me" etc) it does have positive effects on one's entire being. Once or twice a year I do use it spontaneously when I need help, for instance directing a trapped bird into a store outside which happened a few months ago, so it serves as a "bridge" between subject and object and one can become the object of experience, if that makes sense. Metta in such a way manifests spontaneously, if there was such a thing as seperation, communication and 'unity' weren't possible. Something people easily overlook, "duality and non-duality" are not in opposition, just conventional terms.

ps the "egg practise" from Meido's book came naturally to me, it occurs almost daily now. I use the egg on "others" too, or the entire planet/cosmos ;)
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KeithA
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Re: metta practice

Post by KeithA » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:07 pm

Anders stole my thunder a little, but the great lesson for me when I learned about Metta practice is that it begins with me. Having low self-esteem and fear of success, I found the direction of love for myself to be the right message at the right time. I don't imagine one can have love to give to the world if we don't care for ourselves to begin with.

I discussed this once with a troubled Dharma friend. When I brought up the subject of Metta and directing love toward oneself, he deadpanned: "I don't know what means". It was chilling, to be honest. He had no love for himself.
“May he dwell in safety.
May he be happy and healthy.
May he be free of afflictions.
May he be at peace.”
_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Larry
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Re: metta practice

Post by Larry » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:10 pm

Fuki & I....same agreement....same time....no distance :D

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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:16 pm

Larry wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:10 pm
Fuki & I....same agreement....same time....no distance :D
:111:

A true marriage in form and function, hey you know what my offer is should you and your wife ever "part ways" :lol:
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Larry
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Re: metta practice

Post by Larry » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:23 pm

:lol:

But no touching :lol:

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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:26 pm

KeithA wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:07 pm
Having low self-esteem and fear of success, I found the direction of love for myself to be the right message at the right time. I don't imagine one can have love to give to the world if we don't care for ourselves to begin with.
Being bullied as a kid for being (appearing) fat you can guess what effects that had on my psyche, took me lots of years in seclusion to realize there's nothing wrong with me (or anyone), and a natural compassion arised for others that they were capable of such behaviour based on their imagination of seperation, or ignorance. Love for Self is love for all, the totality of manifested existence, not loving someone's behaviour but being compassionate for those are deluded, self/other and helping them where possible with no discrimination.
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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:27 pm

Larry wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:23 pm
:lol:

But no touching :lol:
No, Jundo wouldn't like that. :lol:
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Crystal
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Re: metta practice

Post by Crystal » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:38 pm

'
I thought I'd share the Buddha's words about Metta practice in these two suttas:

THE BLESSINGS OF LOVING KINDNESS (AN 11.16)

If, O monks, the liberation of the mind by loving kindness is developed and cultivated,
frequently practised, made one’s vehicle and foundation, firmly established, consolidated, and
properly undertaken, eleven blessings may be expected. What eleven?

One sleeps peacefully; one awakens peacefully; one sees no bad dreams; one is dear to human
beings; one is dear to non-human beings; one will be protected by devas; fire, poison and
weapons cannot injure one; one’s mind becomes easily concentrated; one’s facial complexion
will be serene; one will die unconfused; and if one does not penetrate higher, one will be reborn
in the Brahma-world.

https://www.urbandharma.org/pdf1/wh238A ... ikaya3.pdf


and here's:

sn 1.8 :The Karaniya Metta Sutta :The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness.

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living beings there may be;
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be-born —
May all beings be at ease!

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.

This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .amar.html


_/|\_

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clyde
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Re: metta practice

Post by clyde » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:43 am

Thank you all for your posts.

Anders; Thank you for sharing your experience with metta practice. I found this most helpful to me:
Anders wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:06 am
But for sure, there are times when you just won't really be 'feeling it'. Comes with the territory. In such situations, it's really just a matter of dogged perseverance. "I may not be feeling it right now, but I wish you well anyway. I may be cranky and wanting to do something else. And yet, I wish you happiness and peace. Blah blah blah, flower power and all that shit. And I wish you happiness and peace." Something happens even there, maybe even especially there.
I think I can honestly do some variation of “I may not be feeling it right now, but I wish you well anyway.” I think this is a good time for me to work on it.


Crystal; The Karaniya Metta Sutta is one of my favorite suttas and I’ve read it often. Thank you for the reminder.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

Caodemarte
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Re: metta practice

Post by Caodemarte » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:08 am

Crystal, thank you for the Sutta. It has the side effect of correctly reminding us that any discussion of Zen must be rooted in its full Buddhist context.

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Anders
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Re: metta practice

Post by Anders » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:46 am

Crystal wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:38 pm
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.

This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world
There are enough suttas documenting that metta practise could lead to full liberation that I can believe it happened back then. It's a shame that no lineages practicing in such a manner has survived. At least, none that I've heard of. It's a beautiful thought though.

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fuki
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Re: metta practice

Post by fuki » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:52 am

Anders wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:46 am
There are enough suttas documenting that metta practise could lead to full liberation that I can believe it happened back then. It's a shame that no lineages practicing in such a manner has survived. At least, none that I've heard of. It's a beautiful thought though.
At our local sangha we chant the metta sutra before the first zazen session, chanting it with a group is very powerful, the energy emanating is unphantomable.
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clyde
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Re: metta practice

Post by clyde » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 pm

Anders; Thank you again for your post. I thought I’d give you an update.

Your advice helped. I also had a subtle aversion - to happiness! In the past, whenever I would attempt metta practice, I would begin with “May I be happy” and get stopped. I could do, “May I be content, peaceful, etc.” but not “happy.” Once seen and understood (Note: That’s another story about views, not about any personal drama or tragedy.), the aversion is dissipating. And I can do metta practice.

Thank you.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Re: metta practice

Post by Great Sage EofH » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:28 am

boda wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:55 pm
desert_woodworker wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:37 pm
I suppose that the practice amounts, in some folks' eyes, to what bodhi/boda here called "praying to one's subconscious", in a thread he initiated here at zenspace.
It's commonly called hypnosis. "Praying to one's subconscious" is a rather clumsy way to think of it.

I've been experimenting with hypnosis for a bit over a year now and can say that it is powerful (but not Godlike powerful :lol: ). Meditation can be a trance like state where we're open to suggestion.
Yes thats a good point, especially guided meditation where the listener is only semi-conscious, but thats yet another topic i think
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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Anders
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Re: metta practice

Post by Anders » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:19 am

clyde wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 pm
Anders; Thank you again for your post. I thought I’d give you an update.

Your advice helped. I also had a subtle aversion - to happiness! In the past, whenever I would attempt metta practice, I would begin with “May I be happy” and get stopped. I could do, “May I be content, peaceful, etc.” but not “happy.” Once seen and understood (Note: That’s another story about views, not about any personal drama or tragedy.), the aversion is dissipating. And I can do metta practice.

Thank you.
Very happy to hear it is working out for you and happy that I could help :556: :namaste:

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