I'd say that it is only when the state or condition of awakening dawns that one -- including Hakuin -- knows
what's-what, with regard to a body, or the body. Thus, the true body is not in "opposition" to the body that the deluded mind believes in, it's just that one is real, and actual, and alive, and hosts no-mind, while the other is a fiction, can cause karma, and is a source of suffering for oneself and others.
"This very body, the Buddha!" --Hakuin: there is no other. No other body; no other Buddha.
And when practicing in China with his Ch'an teacher Ju-Jing, Dogen underwent (experienced; completed) "Body and mind fallen-away". Indeed: when everything stops, there is emptiness, and no impediments to freedom, neither from a body, nor from any mind.
The question was "What is 'the body'?" This is the answer I still see: it's the vehicle of no-mind. To see it as such, one seems to have to become lucky -- through practice -- as Dogen did, and have "body and mind fall away". Of course, what fell completely away were the false and habitual identifications of what body is, and what mind is. They dissolve, because what happens when one is awake is that dreams evaporate and even the vapor disappears, though a memory of the past illusion may still make one laugh and clap one's hands, and I think often does!
[james] wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:49 pm
desert_woodworker wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:46 pm
I'd say that the body is that which is possessed of no-mind, which is the true Mind.
Anders brings up the true body, with certain attributes and characteristics. You further specify that this body is possessed of true Mind. In asking my question I was having in mind Hakuin’s Song of Zazen: “This very body is the body of Buddha”. Was Hakuin referring only to his own very body or does his statement apply to each and e.very body as is without special quality or qualification? I think the latter and wonder what use or benefit there may be in putting this very body in opposition to some so-called “true body”.
The "mind" that's not the true mind is illusion, and is not mind -- nor "a" mind at all -- but is instead a sort of disease-state of ...the body (as is also any holding of a putative "self").
Can any body be in other than a disease or dis-ease state? A body is incapable of illusion. However one might choose to describe it, it can only be truthful. So why create and aspire to a contrivance, the “true body” when in fact that is the only kind of body there is.