I am zazen

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
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loves' the unjust
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I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 am

I am zazen

how this description is true? Could you elaborate?

:117:
cooper

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Mason
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Re: I am zazen

Post by Mason » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:59 am

Nope. You have Right View down to some extent but Zazen Samadhi is the culmination of the path. Lots of work to do!
"The Way needs no cultivation, just do not defile. What is defilement? When with a mind of birth and death one acts in a contrived way, then everything is a defilement. If one wants to know the Way directly: Ordinary Mind is the Way!"

- Record of Ma-tsu

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:32 am

well, that's the result of my deep contemplation.
cooper

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desert_woodworker
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Re: I am zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:29 pm

Enver,

From "Organizational", you've graduated to an identity with TWO "z" s in it, then.

Progress! ;)

But Larry, here -- and you? (I forget) -- spelled the first name with no "z", but an "s"?

The trick is not to go whole-hog and become "Zzz"... although a nap can be very restorative sometimes, even in the midst of practice.

Best!, and I hope you will fully inhabit this identity of yours,

--Joe

------------------------------------------------------------

p.s. Uchiyama Roshi reminds us in his OPENING THE HAND OF THOUGHT -- APPROACH TO ZEN (1993), that the Ch'an- / Zen-Buddhist Ancestor Nagarjuna taught (p. 71-2):
  • "Zazen is the dharma of all the buddhas. Non-Buddhists also practice zazen. However, they make the mistake of colouring it; their incorrect views are like thorns. Therefore, it cannot be the same as the zazen of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Sravakas and pratyeka buddhas also do zazen, but they wish only to control their minds and seek to reach Nirvana. This is not the same as the zazen of the buddhas and bodhisattvas".

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fuki
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Re: I am zazen

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:54 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 am
I am zazen

how this description is true? Could you elaborate?

:117:
No self-definition or description is true, all you can do (need to!)is abandon the false, then you'll see there's no need for true ideas.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:26 pm

thanks Fuki.

May everyone pay respects to Buddha.

:namaste:
Buddha
cooper

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fuki
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Re: I am zazen

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:26 pm
thanks Fuki.

May everyone pay respects to Buddha.

:namaste:
Buddha
Since there is no Buddha, we bow to the Buddha.
People who say there is a Buddha here or there in the past or the future
only split up the Buddha in a thousand parts, how is that paying respect?
Paying respect is the end of prejudice, the end of split-mind.
No-mind, no Buddha.

Bows to You friend, may you be happy.
:namaste:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: I am zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:45 pm

Marcel,

Hakuin Zenji, in his Song of Zazen, sings, within the gatha,

"Apart from water, there is no Ice;
Apart from Beings, (there is) no Buddha".

I'd rephrase with confidence and say that Buddha is no other than sentient beings. But Ashvaghosha is even a little more specific! See below:

Ashvaghosha sings in his Awakening to Faith In the Mahayana,

"The Tathagatha is the mind of the sentient-being".

Although no-mind is the true mind (not the deluded mind, or the mind of delusion), no-mind does not mean no sentient-beings. It means that sentient-beings are the only and true mind, the Tathagatha.
Others may happen to feel they disagree!, but maybe some day, at some point in practice, "they" won't. :107:

--Joe

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fuki
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Re: I am zazen

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:55 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:45 pm
Marcel,

Hakuin Zenji, in his Song of Zazen, sings, within the gatha,

"Apart from water, there is no Ice;
Apart from Beings, (there is) no Buddha".

I'd rephrase with confidence and say that Buddha is no other than sentient beings. But Ashvaghosha is even a little more specific! See below:

Ashvaghosha sings in his Awakening to Faith In the Mahayana,

"The Tathagatha is the mind of the sentient-being".

Although no-mind is the true mind (not the deluded mind, or the mind of delusion), no-mind does not mean no sentient-beings. It means that sentient-beings are the only and true mind, the Tathagatha.
Others may happen to feel they disagree!, but maybe some day, at some point in practice, "they" won't. :107:

--Joe
Joe, thank you.

I agree, my way of saying/pointing that there is only difference in form and behaviour, not in "essence"
So that's "all beings" without split or discrimination. Respect to the Buddha is respect to "all"
Bowing is bowing back, no one can explain this.

ps thanks for our talk the other day, regarding family, "you" were "with" me on christmas eve uptil this morning,
"moving" in accordance with causes and conditions (the family)
(can't put it into words, but you understand)
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: I am zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:06 pm

fuki wrote: ps thanks for our talk the other day, regarding family, "you" were "with" me on christmas eve uptil this morning,
"moving" in accordance with causes and conditions (the family)
(can't put it into words, but you understand)
Fuki, Thank You most profoundly. I hope I understand. Though I was with you, I hope you won't charge me room-and-board. ;)

Oh, and dang: It's now already past Christmas, and I haven't finished my Christmas card list, and I still have cards to send. Marcel?, pls. check your snail-mail in a few weeks. :)

--Joe

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fuki
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Re: I am zazen

Post by fuki » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:27 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:06 pm
Fuki, Thank You most profoundly. I hope I understand. Though I was with you, I hope you won't charge me room-and-board. ;)

Oh, and dang: It's now already past Christmas, and I haven't finished my Christmas card list, and I still have cards to send. Marcel?, pls. check your snail-mail in a few weeks. :)

--Joe
Oh wow, how nice Joe, I love (your) presents, thank you.

In other words then;
Responding to non-dwelling, yet generating the mind/dharma.
Let me send you some hohoho as well, ps I wish I had his hair color ;)
20181225_155744.jpg
Non-dwelling is free
Ho-Ho-Ho
20181225_155744.jpg (175.34 KiB) Viewed 1129 times
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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desert_woodworker
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Re: I am zazen

Post by desert_woodworker » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:46 pm

Thank you, dark-haired Santa, for the mirth and Season's greeting: What a nice 'reindeer' you have there!: "Blitzen"? ( "Zen", in his name...).

I like the smaller, dark one, too, with horns, very much. Seems very solid and self-possessed; compact; exemplary model of goat-hood.

Marcel, see the "Photos" thread: I'm posting three photos for you (et al.) there, featuring "stamps" and animals, or animals on stamps, I've recently obtained. ;)

--Joe

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[james]
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Re: I am zazen

Post by [james] » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:30 am

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 am
I am zazen

how this description is true? Could you elaborate?

:117:
When one is attentive and alert, non-judgmental and unprejudiced, welcoming and grateful, in one’s thoughts, words and deeds ... one may say “I am zazen”.

It is nothing to do with attainment, realization or recognition. This takes care of itself.

Zazen is only zazen, there is nothing lacking.

Of course, saying is not being. Talk is cheap.

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:58 am

thanks james..
cooper

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:12 am

fuki wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:04 pm
Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:26 pm
thanks Fuki.

May everyone pay respects to Buddha.

:namaste:
Buddha
Since there is no Buddha, we bow to the Buddha.
People who say there is a Buddha here or there in the past or the future
only split up the Buddha in a thousand parts, how is that paying respect?
Paying respect is the end of prejudice, the end of split-mind.
No-mind, no Buddha.

Bows to You friend, may you be happy.
:namaste:
Buddha is unconditional love.
To to be able to show your love choiseless to everyone in which everyone find a part for himself and get benefit &/or enjoy for himself without discriminate that if you are a good person or a bad person.

So, that everyone can take part.
Last edited by loves' the unjust on Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
cooper

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michaeljc
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Re: I am zazen

Post by michaeljc » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:13 am

Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 am
I am zazen
Lovely

:namaste:

m

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:18 am

michaeljc wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:13 am
Enver M. wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 am
I am zazen
Lovely

:namaste:

m
thanks michaeljc,

you are lovely.

why don't you be more active on the forum?what do you engage in really lately?
cooper

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fuki
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Re: I am zazen

Post by fuki » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:09 pm

[james] wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:30 am
When one is attentive and alert, non-judgmental and unprejudiced, welcoming and grateful, in one’s thoughts, words and deeds ... one may say “I am zazen”.

It is nothing to do with attainment, realization or recognition. This takes care of itself.

Zazen is only zazen, there is nothing lacking.

Of course, saying is not being. Talk is cheap.
Sorry, saying "I am zazen" to me indicates our bonpu habits/activity, while when correctly practising zazen this tendency is "liberated" or at least doesn't arise for the time being.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

IZIhttp://www.zeninstitute.org/en/iziae/main.html

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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:02 am

Peace with yourself peace with the world.
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loves' the unjust
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Re: I am zazen

Post by loves' the unjust » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:30 pm

I come to decide that without practice I can't give meaning. (anything)
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