Mahakasyapa's Zen

All things related to beginning Zen Practice. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already started Zen training and those planning to do so.
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loves' the unjust
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Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by loves' the unjust » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:50 am

As Nothing has said that was a koan at the Mumonkan.

All in the 48 koans.

I've totally forgot.

CASE 6. THE BUDDHA'S FLOWER

Once upon a time when Shakyamuni Buddha was in Grdhrakuta mountain, he twirled a flower in his finger and held it before his congregation. Everyone was silent. Only Maha Kashapa wholeheartedly smiled. Buddha said, "I have the eye of the true teaching, the heart of Nirvana, the formless form, the mysterious gate of Dharma. Beyond the words and beyond all teachings to be transmitted, I now pass this on to Maha Kashapa."

Mumon's Comment:Golden-faced Gautama impudently forced the good people into depravity. He sold dog meat under the name of mutton. And he thought he made it! What if all the audience had laughed together? How could he have handed the eye of the true teaching or if Kashapa had not smiled, how could he have transmitted the teaching? If you say it could be transmitted, he is like a golden-faced old huckster swindling at the city gate, and if you say it cannot be transmitted, how does he hand it on to Maha Kashapa?

At the turning of a flower, 
The snake (his disguise) shows his tail.
Maha Kashapa smiles,
Every monk does not know what to do.


Is it true? Is it Mahakasyapa's Zen.

or is it just Zen.

how much do we understand him?

how much we are living it in everyday life?

and so forth...

anyone want to talk about?

:namaste:
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Great Sage EofH
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Re: Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by Great Sage EofH » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:29 pm

Mummon has a good point. Everyone has to choose whether to be a wild fox or not. Equanimity demands that the flower is the same as dog meat. A very wise person told me everything becomes nothing. But nothing has no existence, it is merely as described - "nothing." Trying to find symmetry here is as useless as it is misleading.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~~ Roam

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[james]
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Re: Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by [james] » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:57 am

Great Sage EofH wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:29 pm
Mummon has a good point. Everyone has to choose whether to be a wild fox or not. Equanimity demands that the flower is the same as dog meat. A very wise person told me everything becomes nothing. But nothing has no existence, it is merely as described - "nothing."
Equanimity accepts that a flower may, or may not, be dog meat.
Equanimity accepts that one may, or may not, be a wild fox.
“Nothing” has exactly the same existence as “everything”.

“Things are not what they appear to be, nor are they otherwise.”

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loves' the unjust
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Re: Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by loves' the unjust » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 pm

When your mind is empty.You begin to fly.I think same mechanism.
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[james]
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Re: Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by [james] » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:01 pm

“Alan Watts (or someone else maybe)” wrote: Angels fly because they take themselves lightly.

avisitor
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Re: Mahakasyapa's Zen

Post by avisitor » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:39 am

Sorry, but I hold the unpopular opinion (held by very few) that ...

The general populace see Koans as the essence of Zen
And in such beliefs, many speak in riddles and non-speak.
There are some out there, who do this riddle type of speak, believing that is Zen

This is not to say that the Zen Buddhist masters of yester-years were false
It is just the general perception of Zen by lay people ..
because Koans were what lay people know were being used

An example of such, ...
A monk asked Joshu, “What is the meaning of the patriarch’s coming from the west?”
Joshu said, “The oak tree there in the garden.”
After comment by Mumon, it becomes a Koan

However, Zen Buddhism is not all riddles and non-speak
It isn't stopping thoughts or sitting with a blank mind
After much disciplined practice under a teacher's guidance,
a disciple's state would be ripe for the Buddha's transmission
The flower held up by Buddha was enough to find the person
who received the transmission and continued Buddha's lineage
What is this transmission? The Buddha's mind, Buddha nature, truth, ....???
Which, after Mumon's comment, has now turned into a Koan
Now published and passed on as Koans
Enver M said, "Is it true? Is it Mahakasyapa's Zen.

or is it just Zen.
Is it true? I don't know. I wasn't there.
Is it Zen? It was Buddha's teachings. Zen, don't know??

I am sure someone else will have a different opinion
Sorry if I offended anyone

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